2015 Stallion Fees

[Afrashad]

[Northport]

Hard Spun at $35,000 seems like a nice deal! I guess Lonhro isn't coming back?

[Horsebagger]

JBBA 2015

Cape Blanco(IRE): JPY 250,000 (about US$ 23k)
Empire Maker(USA): JPY 350,000 (about US$ 32k)
Johannesburg(USA): JPY 200,000 (about US$ 19k)

I'm curious where they set the fee for Pioneerof the Nile after the BC, because if Empire Maker is only getting the equivalent of $32,000 in Japan, wouldn't Empire Maker (even at age 15 next year) be able to get a better fee here in the US than $32,000? Granted, the vagaries of international currency exchange have long since left me as a topic I've invested any time in understanding, but there must be something I'm missing if POTN gets an advertised fee increase to anything more than $25,000.

[swale1984]

Hard Spun at $35,000 seems like a nice deal! I guess Lonhro isn't coming back?

That's a sad thought. I loved his yearlings that went through the ring at Keeneland. VERY well put together.

[serenassong]

Hard Spun at $35,000 seems like a nice deal! I guess Lonhro isn't coming back?

That's a sad thought. I loved his yearlings that went through the ring at Keeneland. VERY well put together.

I agree if that is the case that he is not coming back here. I thought his yearlings looked very nice as well watching on the feed.

[Northport]

Perhaps if Lonhro's offspring do well once they hit the track in North American they will bring him back? He got decent sized books each year he was here, so it wasn't exactly like he was ignored by breeders. Denman, on the other hand, [only] covered 65 mares, so I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't return.

[Admin]

I am a little puzzled with Will Take Charge's fee. I think he will make a nice stallion, but if you want a Take Charge Lady stallion, I would think that you would go to his half brother, Take Charge Indy. He may be less accomplished as a racehorse, but he is really a fine looking stallion. More importantly, he is 10k cheaper than WTC, and he is from a known sire of sires, AP Indy. Unbridled's Song has not been a tremendous sire of sires, so if I was a breeder, I would choose Take Charge Indy.

It kind of hurts me to say that because Will Take Charge was sound and durable, whereas Take Charge Indy was NOT.

On a tangent, Yes It's True for 10k is an absolute steal!!

Take Charge Indy has very upright pasterns.

WTC was very sound for being a big horse and an Unbridled's Song, and he's very good-looking. And far more accomplished.

[mariasmon]

Will Take Charge has very upright pasterns.

You mean Take Charge Indy, right?

[Admin]

JBBA 2015

Cape Blanco(IRE): JPY 250,000 (about US$ 23k)
Empire Maker(USA): JPY 350,000 (about US$ 32k)
Johannesburg(USA): JPY 200,000 (about US$ 19k)

I'm curious where they set the fee for Pioneerof the Nile after the BC, because if Empire Maker is only getting the equivalent of $32,000 in Japan, wouldn't Empire Maker (even at age 15 next year) be able to get a better fee here in the US than $32,000? Granted, the vagaries of international currency exchange have long since left me as a topic I've invested any time in understanding, but there must be something I'm missing if POTN gets an advertised fee increase to anything more than $25,000.

Japan doesn't operate by normal market forces. Empire Maker is owned by the state and making money isn't their top priority (if a priority at all). It's my understanding that they set the fees low to benefit the breeders.

[Admin]

Will Take Charge has very upright pasterns.

You mean Take Charge Indy, right?

Sorry, yes, corrected.

[Horsebagger]

JBBA 2015

Cape Blanco(IRE): JPY 250,000 (about US$ 23k)
Empire Maker(USA): JPY 350,000 (about US$ 32k)
Johannesburg(USA): JPY 200,000 (about US$ 19k)

I'm curious where they set the fee for Pioneerof the Nile after the BC, because if Empire Maker is only getting the equivalent of $32,000 in Japan, wouldn't Empire Maker (even at age 15 next year) be able to get a better fee here in the US than $32,000? Granted, the vagaries of international currency exchange have long since left me as a topic I've invested any time in understanding, but there must be something I'm missing if POTN gets an advertised fee increase to anything more than $25,000.

Japan doesn't operate by normal market forces. Empire Maker is owned by the state and making money isn't their top priority (if a priority at all). It's my understanding that they set the fees low to benefit the breeders.

Let me preface this by saying that I am not an expert on thoroughbred breeding in Japan, and don't ever intend to be. But it was my impression that the stallions are privately owned by JBBA, who I thought was a public company, and that the Japanese government, in some capacity and/or at some level, subsidizes stallion payments on behalf of Japanese breeders.

So, if for example I wanted to BUY Empire Maker and bring him back to the US, I would be negotiating with a private owner (JBBA), not the Japanese government. The relevent fact to his value, however, that one would need to evaluate is not what the out of pocket fee is to a Japanese mare owner (which my prior post inadvertantly implied, I believe), but the total income to JBBA for each mare covered, which would include mare owner fee PLUS subsidy.

In the end, I'm not buying him, obviously. But I would love to see a farm in the US buy him and bring him back. Because we would definetely breed to him if he was here.

[tachyon]

JBBA 2015

Cape Blanco(IRE): JPY 250,000 (about US$ 23k)
Empire Maker(USA): JPY 350,000 (about US$ 32k)
Johannesburg(USA): JPY 200,000 (about US$ 19k)

I'm curious where they set the fee for Pioneerof the Nile after the BC, because if Empire Maker is only getting the equivalent of $32,000 in Japan, wouldn't Empire Maker (even at age 15 next year) be able to get a better fee here in the US than $32,000? Granted, the vagaries of international currency exchange have long since left me as a topic I've invested any time in understanding, but there must be something I'm missing if POTN gets an advertised fee increase to anything more than $25,000.

It may be worth noting that the Japanese Yen depreciated by nearly 30% against the US Dollar over the past two years.
JPY 350,000 could have translated to US$ 45K with the exchange rate in between 2011 and 2012, an approximately similar price he was receiving from US breeders just before he left from Juddmonte.

[Admin]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not an expert on thoroughbred breeding in Japan, and don't ever intend to be. But it was my impression that the stallions are privately owned by JBBA, who I thought was a public company, and that the Japanese government, in some capacity and/or at some level, subsidizes stallion payments on behalf of Japanese breeders.

So, if for example I wanted to BUY Empire Maker and bring him back to the US, I would be negotiating with a private owner (JBBA), not the Japanese government. The relevent fact to his value, however, that one would need to evaluate is not what the out of pocket fee is to a Japanese mare owner (which my prior post inadvertantly implied, I believe), but the total income to JBBA for each mare covered, which would include mare owner fee PLUS subsidy.

In the end, I'm not buying him, obviously. But I would love to see a farm in the US buy him and bring him back. Because we would definetely breed to him if he was here.

We tried to buy him. They turned down $50 million, and pretty much indicated that no sum could buy him. I thought it was the government entity that we were talking with. He certainly turned out to be a huge loss for American breeding, and is set to be a tremendous broodmare sire.

[Horsebagger]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not an expert on thoroughbred breeding in Japan, and don't ever intend to be. But it was my impression that the stallions are privately owned by JBBA, who I thought was a public company, and that the Japanese government, in some capacity and/or at some level, subsidizes stallion payments on behalf of Japanese breeders.

So, if for example I wanted to BUY Empire Maker and bring him back to the US, I would be negotiating with a private owner (JBBA), not the Japanese government. The relevent fact to his value, however, that one would need to evaluate is not what the out of pocket fee is to a Japanese mare owner (which my prior post inadvertantly implied, I believe), but the total income to JBBA for each mare covered, which would include mare owner fee PLUS subsidy.

In the end, I'm not buying him, obviously. But I would love to see a farm in the US buy him and bring him back. Because we would definetely breed to him if he was here.

We tried to buy him. They turned down $50 million, and pretty much indicated that no sum could buy him. I thought it was the government entity that we were talking with. He certainly turned out to be a huge loss for American breeding, and is set to be a tremendous broodmare sire.

So, you guys (unsuprisingly) are ahead of the curve us mortals are just trying to operate on. But that's exactly my question and where my confusion comes from, I think. Who WERE you negotiating with?? I would be very curious to know if it was the government or a private owner.

[tachyon]

Who paid US$ 50 million?
I'm just curious.

[Admin]

Let me preface this by saying that I am not an expert on thoroughbred breeding in Japan, and don't ever intend to be. But it was my impression that the stallions are privately owned by JBBA, who I thought was a public company, and that the Japanese government, in some capacity and/or at some level, subsidizes stallion payments on behalf of Japanese breeders.

So, if for example I wanted to BUY Empire Maker and bring him back to the US, I would be negotiating with a private owner (JBBA), not the Japanese government. The relevent fact to his value, however, that one would need to evaluate is not what the out of pocket fee is to a Japanese mare owner (which my prior post inadvertantly implied, I believe), but the total income to JBBA for each mare covered, which would include mare owner fee PLUS subsidy.

In the end, I'm not buying him, obviously. But I would love to see a farm in the US buy him and bring him back. Because we would definetely breed to him if he was here.

We tried to buy him. They turned down $50 million, and pretty much indicated that no sum could buy him. I thought it was the government entity that we were talking with. He certainly turned out to be a huge loss for American breeding, and is set to be a tremendous broodmare sire.

So, you guys (unsuprisingly) are ahead of the curve us mortals are just trying to operate on. But that's exactly my question and where my confusion comes from, I think. Who WERE you negotiating with?? I would be very curious to know if it was the government or a private owner.

Maybe you have a better handle on what the JBBA is than I do. I see that it is said to be a public company, but it looks quasi-governmental at least. I don't see how it could do what it claims to do without significant governmental funds which probably also limits its powers. I do believe I've heard that it's difficult if not impossible to sell a broodmare, for example, after you've received JBBA support to fund that purchase.

[Northport]

Some European fees

Irish National Stud
Invincible Spirit - €100,000
Big Bad Bob - €9,000
Gale Force Ten - €5,000
Worthadd - €6,000
Dragon Pulse - €6,000
Lord Shanakill - €5,000
Famous Name - €4,000
Elusive Pimpernel - €1,000


Rathasker Stud
Es Que Love - €5,000
Clodovil - €10,000
Bungle Inthejungle - €5,000
Born to Sea - €10,000
Fast Company - €7,500


Newsells Park Stud
Nathanial - £20,000
Equiano - £8,000
Mount Nelson - £6,000


Tweenhills Farm
Charm Spirit - £25,000
Havana Gold - £8,500
Harbour Watch - £7,500


Whitsbury Manor Stud
Showcasing - £15,000
Foxwedge - £7,000
Compton Place - £5,500
Swiss Spirit - £4,500
Sakhee's Secret - £4,500


Haras de la Cauviniere
Le Havre - €20,000
Air Chief Marshal - €3,000
Rajsaman - €4,000

[mimi6920]

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if Tapit is north of 300k next year. Even if his fee was this high, his book would still be over-subscribed. I think he might be the next stallion to reach Storm Cat level of stud fees. Especially if Tonalist does well tomorrow. If Tonalist does better than all the three year olds tomorrow, Tapit could potentially have the three year old champion in both genders in the same year. Has that ever happened before?

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... nings-mark

[middleground]

f Tonalist does better than all the three year olds tomorrow, Tapit could potentially have the three year old champion in both genders in the same year. Has that ever happened before?

Man o' War, Count Fleet, and Heliopolis all had dual 3yo champions.

I thought at first that Bull Lea would be on this list and was somewhat surprised to discover I was wrong.

[mimi6920]

Bull Lea was the only one that I thought may have done this, so I am surprised he is on the list. Didn't know about the others. Thanks!