Grand National

Katewerk · Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:25 pm

I was about to post this in the Racing section, but it really deserves to be here - how much do pedigrees of these horses diverge from leading lines in flat racing?

How useful might they be as crosses to improve soundness and stamina, or is that an experiment that's been tried and abandoned?

swale1984 · Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:35 pm

Well, looking at the past 4 winners, there seems to be the use of SOME prominent stallions (one had Northern Dancer twice), but largely, they are European horses and very little inbreeding.

I got very upset when the American Thoroughbred Review said that Americain was basically not "suitable" for American breeding. Here's a horse that won from 1 to 2 miles, from a fairly sturdy family, and a breeding consultant site is discouraging breeding to him because his progeny might take longer to develop. UGH!

carole · Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:02 pm

I don't really think pedigree matters that much in national hunt racing. It's a case of can the horse stay? Yes. Can the horse jump? Yes, ok we're good to go

luvthesales · Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:13 pm

Katewerk wrote:I was about to post this in the Racing section, but it really deserves to be here - how much do pedigrees of these horses diverge from leading lines in flat racing?

How useful might they be as crosses to improve soundness and stamina, or is that an experiment that's been tried and abandoned?

It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.

Katewerk · Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:00 pm

luvthesales wrote:It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.

Thanks, that was my other question!

Della · Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:23 am

Katewerk wrote:
luvthesales wrote:It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.
Thanks, that was my other question!

When you say he's not a full TB, what is the "bit" that's not TB?

aethervox · Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:03 pm

Della wrote:
Katewerk wrote:
luvthesales wrote:It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.
Thanks, that was my other question!
When you say he's not a full TB, what is the "bit" that's not TB?

It's Selle Francais. His sixth dam, Judelle II, was half-thoroughbred, according to the Sport Horse Show and Breed Database.

djnorth · Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:00 am

That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!

aethervox · Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:05 pm

djnorth wrote:That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!

What's interesting is that Weatherby's in the UK has a 'non-thoroughbred register' and allows some of those horses into their thoroughbred stud. From their 'Conditions of Entry to General Stud Book':

Section B: In addition, a foal may be promoted from the Non-Thoroughbred Register and registered in the Appendix to the General Stud Book when the following conditions are all satisfied:
1. It can be satisfactorily proven that the foal results from a minimum of eight recorded crosses consecutively with "Thoroughbreds" (as designated above) including the cross of which it is the progeny.
2. The foal can show such performances in races open to Thoroughbreds, in both the Thoroughbred and Non-Thoroughbred sections of its pedigree, as to warrant its assimilation with Thoroughbreds.
3. The promotion is approved by the unanimous agreement of the International Stud Book Committee.

swale1984 · Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:47 pm

djnorth wrote:That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!

LOL. However, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in more sturdy stock from Europe, especially the German horses.

Miss Woodford · Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:37 pm

djnorth wrote:That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!

Once a horse gets into the General Stud Book of the Jockey Club of Great Britain or France they are looked at the same as any other horse in the GSB, and they could certainly race in the US.

Actually both NH (UK) and NSA (USA) jumps racing allow NTR horses to compete. The 1995 Maryland Grand National winner Tarsky had a Selle Francais as his seventh dam, so he was two crosses shy of being GSB-eligible.