2024 TRAVERS

[Tessablue]

?? Anna was extremely brave and incredibly good there, but she ended up in a beautiful pocket. That was the trip you would hope for from the 1 post. The jockey maybe didn't have to swing her quite so wide turning for home, but she saved way more ground than Fierceness into the first turn, and she also ran into another extremely talented horse.

[Izvestia]

That’s Fierceness’ first back-to-back win.
Glad Anna ran well!

[BaroqueAgain1]

I was yelling so hard for 'Anna that I scared my cat...and probably my neighbors too. Sigh....so close.
So...what should be next for Thorpedo Anna? Go back to the girls? Run in the BC Distaff?
Or has she shown she is as good as any of the boys, and should run in the Classic?

[Slewfan2]

Ah, I was calling out for Thorpedo…soo close. What a great filly

[CoronadosQuest]

The bc classic is going to be such a great race!

[Northport]

McPeek had said pre race that regardless of the outcome of the Travers, Thorpedo Anna would go to the Cotillion then Distaff next.

Re: Dornoch’s BMs… arent they all like that for all horses right before they race? Like whenever im at the races theyre all stressed af before racing so that stuff… aint solid.

[tachyon]

I was yelling so hard for 'Anna that I scared my cat...and probably my neighbors too. Sigh....so close.
So...what should be next for Thorpedo Anna? Go back to the girls? Run in the BC Distaff?
Or has she shown she is as good as any of the boys, and should run in the Classic?

I hope that Anna will be pointed to the BC Classic!!
I suspect that she has ALREADY secured her Eclipse Champion 3yo Filly title today.

[Tessablue]

Watching the head-on, and Fierceness probably gave up four or five lengths of distance to Anna throughout that race. He got the classic Johnny V "I'm on the best horse" ride, which may be unfortunately a bit too subtle for people to appreciate how well his horse ran. It seems like he's a horse who very much wants to rate unbothered on the outside, and the draw will be crucial for him in the Classic. I'm also very proud of the heart he showed, after all of the "he's not a fighter" rhetoric earlier this year.

Anna ran amazing, and I'm undecided on where she should go from here. She's 3yo filly champ, no doubt about that, and she could still get HOTY with a victory in the Classic. But the Distaff is incredibly deep this year and would do plenty to cement her legacy as well. No need to rush the answer, and my guess would be that she goes to the Distaff, but both should be tremendous races.

Fierceness I think was already going straight to the Classic from here. I think he's probably the leader for top 3yo at this point? His main opponent was Dornoch, who did not run well here and I suspect will not run well in the BC. But a lot can happen between now and then.

McPeek had said pre race that regardless of the outcome of the Travers, Thorpedo Anna would go to the Cotillion then Distaff next.

Re: Dornoch’s BMs… arent they all like that for all horses right before they race? Like whenever im at the races theyre all stressed af before racing so that stuff… aint solid.

To my own memory they are still pretty much always solid, and it stood out to me as unusual in the post parade. I would think it would be even more of a concern on a hot day like this one, but that's not a dataset I'm willing to put together

Other observations- Sierra Leone finally ran straight as an arrow, and although the pace was against him it also allowed him to stay closer than he normally does. He just wasn't quite good enough, and seems like the sort of horse who always runs just well enough to hit the board and make you believe in his next start.

Batten Down is neat but nowhere near the rest of these. Dornoch just looked flat. Honor Marie was last, and may need a reboot and/or trainer change :/

[Timely Writer]

My foolish cat actually laid down on me before this race, big mistake. Crazy thing is, if this race was 1 3/8ths she wins going away

Getting Tacitus vibes from Sierra Leone now

[sweettalk]

I was yelling so hard for 'Anna that I scared my cat...and probably my neighbors too. Sigh....so close.
So...what should be next for Thorpedo Anna? Go back to the girls? Run in the BC Distaff?
Or has she shown she is as good as any of the boys, and should run in the Classic?

I hope that Anna will be pointed to the BC Classic!!
I suspect that she has ALREADY secured her Eclipse Champion 3yo Filly title today.

i'd absolutely like to see her against boys again but i'm not sold on the classic just yet (can't say i wouldn't be over the moon if she pulled that off tho!)

[Gemini]

It’s not that sprints or turf are easier, it’s that the way those races are run you don’t have the type of stretch runs that lead to a big separation. A mare can run a quarter to 5/16 with a colt. In turf races, that happens late and the fields are often times bunched when that turn of foot is expected. In sprints it’s usually early. The pace in a filly race is usually softer, not so much slower but the open races are “hotter” and more contentious. Also remember that in the fall the weight allowance is reduced and in the Fall Highweight, the “lightweights” often carried 130 or more. The bottom line is, connections want to make money. Open races pay out more, so if running mares in those races made sense, they’d do it.

Speaking specifically about Ta Wee (thanks to my copy of DRF Champions), she won her first “Fall” Highweight Handicap as a 3YO filly in August carrying 130 lbs. The place and show finishers carried 131 and 129 lbs respectively. Her next foray into open company was a win in the Vosburgh while toting 123 lbs—the older males who finished behind her carried 116 lbs and 120 lbs.

I know handicaps are a thing of the past, but it doesn’t seem like she got any breaks for being female. Ta Wee closed out her career by defeating other females—her impost was 142 vs 112 and 113 lbs.

Had those races been in the spring or summer Ta Wee would have gotten a break, in the open races. Not counting Secretariat’s Belmont which is its’ own category, I think the most impressive race I’ve ever seen was Dahlia’s 1973 Washington DC International when she was a 3yo. Unfortunately, the video footage of that race is long gone. When Rachel won the 2009 Woodward she was erroneously credited by a couple of turf writers as being the first 3yo filly to win an open G1 of any kind. One or two doubled down when corrected since, I guess, if the footage was gone, Dahlia’s race didn’t happen. Finally the assertion was amended to the first on dirt, which was true.

Busher was HOY as a three year old filly after winning the Arlington, Will Rogers, and Washington Park Handicaps in 1945…those were the days before a graded stakes system but I assume winning such events was a big deal.

[Slewfan2]

Watching the head-on, and Fierceness probably gave up four or five lengths of distance to Anna throughout that race. He got the classic Johnny V "I'm on the best horse" ride, which may be unfortunately a bit too subtle for people to appreciate how well his horse ran. It seems like he's a horse who very much wants to rate unbothered on the outside, and the draw will be crucial for him in the Classic. I'm also very proud of the heart he showed, after all of the "he's not a fighter" rhetoric earlier this year.

Anna ran amazing, and I'm undecided on where she should go from here. She's 3yo filly champ, no doubt about that, and she could still get HOTY with a victory in the Classic. But the Distaff is incredibly deep this year and would do plenty to cement her legacy as well. No need to rush the answer, and my guess would be that she goes to the Distaff, but both should be tremendous races.

Fierceness I think was already going straight to the Classic from here. I think he's probably the leader for top 3yo at this point? His main opponent was Dornoch, who did not run well here and I suspect will not run well in the BC. But a lot can happen between now and then.

McPeek had said pre race that regardless of the outcome of the Travers, Thorpedo Anna would go to the Cotillion then Distaff next.

Re: Dornoch’s BMs… arent they all like that for all horses right before they race? Like whenever im at the races theyre all stressed af before racing so that stuff… aint solid.

To my own memory they are still pretty much always solid, and it stood out to me as unusual in the post parade. I would think it would be even more of a concern on a hot day like this one, but that's not a dataset I'm willing to put together

Other observations- Sierra Leone finally ran straight as an arrow, and although the pace was against him it also allowed him to stay closer than he normally does. He just wasn't quite good enough, and seems like the sort of horse who always runs just well enough to hit the board and make you believe in his next start.

Batten Down is neat but nowhere near the rest of these. Dornoch just looked flat. Honor Marie was last, and may need a reboot and/or trainer change :/

I know people will and have - on Twitter- call Honor Marie a donkey, but he’s a good, honest horse just not quite as good as the best in his division. This is only bad race he’s run in his career - and TBH, I wasn’t surprised.

I don’t think he needed blinkers despite Whit saying that he was slightly more responsive in them. HM ran very well in the Derby and Belmont - what he needed was better luck, not new equipment

But mostly I got vibes of Honor A.P. and the Shared Belief. I knew going in that he wouldn’t be at his best because John had worked him sooo slowly, didn’t give him one stiff work even off the layoff. I was worried before the race - and it proved out; HAP should have won it on even less than his best, but he wasn’t good at all

HM was training brilliantly coming into the Derby, and Whit did give him at least one hard work. Not for the Belmont, and not here

I don’t want to be harsh because he’s done a really good job, but IMO, he could have done better

I don’t know if HM has a turf hoof or stride, but he’s got a great turf pedigree. I’d either give him an easier dirt race or try him on turf

[Slewfan2]

McPeek had said pre race that regardless of the outcome of the Travers, Thorpedo Anna would go to the Cotillion then Distaff next.

Re: Dornoch’s BMs… arent they all like that for all horses right before they race? Like whenever im at the races theyre all stressed af before racing so that stuff… aint solid.

Kenny is such a classy guy, congratulating the winning connections

[Gemini]

McPeek had said pre race that regardless of the outcome of the Travers, Thorpedo Anna would go to the Cotillion then Distaff next.

Re: Dornoch’s BMs… arent they all like that for all horses right before they race? Like whenever im at the races theyre all stressed af before racing so that stuff… aint solid.

Multiple horses took care of business in the paddock, during saddling, post parade, and entering the starting gate. Dornoch was the only one I saw that made me think “yikes, poor guy.”

[Tessablue]

I know people will and have - on Twitter- call Honor Marie a donkey, but he’s a good, honest horse just not quite as good as the best in his division. This is only bad race he’s run in his career - and TBH, I wasn’t surprised.

I don’t think he needed blinkers despite Whit saying that he was slightly more responsive in them. HM ran very well in the Derby and Belmont - what he needed was better luck, not new equipment

But mostly I got vibes of Honor A.P. and the Shared Belief. I knew going in that he wouldn’t be at his best because John had worked him sooo slowly, didn’t give him one stiff work even off the layoff. I was worried before the race - and it proved out; HAP should have won it on even less than his best, but he wasn’t good at all

HM was training brilliantly coming into the Derby, and Whit did give him at least one hard work. Not for the Belmont, and not here

I don’t want to be harsh because he’s done a really good job, but IMO, he could have done better

I don’t know if HM has a turf hoof or stride, but he’s got a great turf pedigree. I’d either give him an easier dirt race or try him on turf

Yeah, I didn't follow super closely but my impression was that they were sort of trying to force the race instead of waiting for the horse to be at his best. Panic-blinkers are generally a pretty bad sign. I think turf is a great option for him, hopefully we see him on that surface next!

[Slewfan2]

I know people will and have - on Twitter- call Honor Marie a donkey, but he’s a good, honest horse just not quite as good as the best in his division. This is only bad race he’s run in his career - and TBH, I wasn’t surprised.

I don’t think he needed blinkers despite Whit saying that he was slightly more responsive in them. HM ran very well in the Derby and Belmont - what he needed was better luck, not new equipment

But mostly I got vibes of Honor A.P. and the Shared Belief. I knew going in that he wouldn’t be at his best because John had worked him sooo slowly, didn’t give him one stiff work even off the layoff. I was worried before the race - and it proved out; HAP should have won it on even less than his best, but he wasn’t good at all

HM was training brilliantly coming into the Derby, and Whit did give him at least one hard work. Not for the Belmont, and not here

I don’t want to be harsh because he’s done a really good job, but IMO, he could have done better

I don’t know if HM has a turf hoof or stride, but he’s got a great turf pedigree. I’d either give him an easier dirt race or try him on turf

Yeah, I didn't follow super closely but my impression was that they were sort of trying to force the race instead of waiting for the horse to be at his best. Panic-blinkers are generally a pretty bad sign. I think turf is a great option for him, hopefully we see him on that surface next!

Yep, exactly what it was - a panic move. There was no need to change anything….

I think now is the perfect time to try turf - they can always go back to dirt later or next year

[Tessablue]

111 BSF for Fierceness and presumably Anna, that was a gigantic effort by both of them.

[Curtis]

Speaking specifically about Ta Wee (thanks to my copy of DRF Champions), she won her first “Fall” Highweight Handicap as a 3YO filly in August carrying 130 lbs. The place and show finishers carried 131 and 129 lbs respectively. Her next foray into open company was a win in the Vosburgh while toting 123 lbs—the older males who finished behind her carried 116 lbs and 120 lbs.

I know handicaps are a thing of the past, but it doesn’t seem like she got any breaks for being female. Ta Wee closed out her career by defeating other females—her impost was 142 vs 112 and 113 lbs.

Had those races been in the spring or summer Ta Wee would have gotten a break, in the open races. Not counting Secretariat’s Belmont which is its’ own category, I think the most impressive race I’ve ever seen was Dahlia’s 1973 Washington DC International when she was a 3yo. Unfortunately, the video footage of that race is long gone. When Rachel won the 2009 Woodward she was erroneously credited by a couple of turf writers as being the first 3yo filly to win an open G1 of any kind. One or two doubled down when corrected since, I guess, if the footage was gone, Dahlia’s race didn’t happen. Finally the assertion was amended to the first on dirt, which was true.

Busher was HOY as a three year old filly after winning the Arlington, Will Rogers, and Washington Park Handicaps in 1945…those were the days before a graded stakes system but I assume winning such events was a big deal.

It’s true about Busher. In 1945, the US was just starting to
transition from WW2, so those accomplishments in retrospect should almost have an asterisk. And again being pre-Shoemaker, races were run differently. The Will Rogers was always an early prep for the titular 3yo stake at Hollywood Park. A nice race to win but it would never be considered G1 caliber. Of the three open races Busher won, the Washington Park Handicap at times was G1 caliber. Grading of stakes began in 1973. If Thorpedo Anna were to win the BC Classic, she should be HOY. After watching and reviewing today’s race however, I would opt for the Distaff. The only quibble I’d have with the ride she was given is maybe she was babied a bit and not sent until it was too late to catch the winner. I think seeing the trip Fierceness got, he was far better than he looked and the margin was deceiving. He was definitely the best horse and he was ridden like it.

[Tessablue]

3yos really have every division covered... Raging Torrent just defeated The Chosen Vron in the Pat O'Brien.

If Thorpedo Anna were to win the BC Classic, she should be HOY. After watching and reviewing today’s race however, I would opt for the Distaff. The only quibble I’d have with the ride she was given is maybe she was babied a bit and not sent until it was too late to catch the winner. I think seeing the trip Fierceness got, he was far better than he looked and the margin was deceiving. He was definitely the best horse and he was ridden like it.

Oh thank goodness, I don't think my psyche could handle another "Fierceness had the better trip" take. His rag is going to be like -100... but with all of the attention on Anna and City of Troy surely taking a ton of money, maybe he'll still offer some value in the Classic? Long way to go still, but it's shaping up to be an incredible race.

[Curtis]

3yos really have every division covered... Raging Torrent just defeated The Chosen Vron in the Pat O'Brien.

If Thorpedo Anna were to win the BC Classic, she should be HOY. After watching and reviewing today’s race however, I would opt for the Distaff. The only quibble I’d have with the ride she was given is maybe she was babied a bit and not sent until it was too late to catch the winner. I think seeing the trip Fierceness got, he was far better than he looked and the margin was deceiving. He was definitely the best horse and he was ridden like it.

Oh thank goodness, I don't think my psyche could handle another "Fierceness had the better trip" take. His rag is going to be like -100... but with all of the attention on Anna and City of Troy surely taking a ton of money, maybe he'll still offer some value in the Classic? Long way to go still, but it's shaping up to be an incredible race.

Some narratives are cut and paste. I’m guessing Thorpedo Anna was doomed because of the rail draw and that was that, but this is the only form of social media in which I indulge, so I don’t know what you’ve been reading. But I was told after last year’s Derby that I gotta get out more, so you may want to hitch your wagon elsewhere. I was at EMD on Preakness Day and some guy was shmocking about this year’s Derby and described Fierceness as a “gutless need the lead type” and that he would be retired any day now. I thought about asking who he was betting on in the upcoming race so I could bet on something else. Obtuse, but an angle nonetheless.