Biggest "failures" at stud

[Flanders]

Smarty Jones retired to stud right when the stallion bubble was at its peak; I remember a lot of people making fun of the stud fee because he just didn't have much pedigree backing it up. I was rooting for him, but his lack of success at stud was not surprising at all, sadly.

The stud who comes to mind for me, oddly, is Eddington. I don't recall a ton of fanfare when he retired, but I saw him at Claiborne shortly afterwards. They had him in Secretariat's stall and were very excited about him... 15 years later, he's in California and has only produced one real horse of note (Secret Circle). Wish it had turned out better for Claiborne

I saw him there at Claiborne too, it was 2013 IIRC (anyway, Orb's year). I remember being surprised that he was in Secretariat's stall but maybe it is just random depending on when they arrive and which stall is available.

there's a photo of Runhappy in that stall when he arrived and Eddington's name plate isn't there. but idk if it was because it was just a transitory stall for him or if he wasn't worthy enough of having the name plate kept there.

They gave stall 1 to Eddington because it was Unbridled's stall. Even though Unbridled was only at Claiborne for 5 years, they absolutely adored him. They thought it would be special to give the stall to one of his sons. That was also Lure's stall before the fertility claim his first year. The insurance company took ownership and Coolmore bought him. They couldn't get his fertility to improve and asked Claiborne if they'd like him back to be pensioned there. Which of course, they gladly accepted.

[Mylute]

The insurance company took ownership and Coolmore bought him.

Why did the insurance company seize ownership?

[Northport]

Isn’t that part of the payout process when farms make claims for infertile stallions? Like, the farms get the money, the insurance companies get the horse, and then someone else can come along and buy the horse. I think that is what happened with Early Voting and Cigar.

[halo]

I dont think he'd be called a failure exactly, and Im not sure what you would call him, but probably the most magnificent horse Ive ever seen, Slew o Gold, had a pretty odd stud career. First crop had, I think, 4 grade 1 winners. After that his stud career tanked. Really strange.

[halo]

Afleet Alex?

7 Grade 1 winners.

[Slewfan2]

I dont think he'd be called a failure exactly, and Im not sure what you would call him, but probably the most magnificent horse Ive ever seen, Slew o Gold, had a pretty odd stud career. First crop had, I think, 4 grade 1 winners. After that his stud career tanked. Really strange.

Yeah, I mentioned him earlier. Such a shame…His filly, Gorgeous, was special - and a very underrated filly

**6 G1 winners in his 1st 2 crops

[Northport]

Union Rags has had a similar trajectory. Came out guns blazing with 3 G1 winners in his first crop, peaked at a fee of $60,000 from 2018-2020, then kind of fell off a cliff.

Of his 15 best performers:
7 were born in 2014 (his first crop)
1 was born in 2015
0 were born in 2016
1 was born in 2017
4 were born in 2018 (after his first crop started showing a lot of talent as 3 year olds)
1 was born in 2019
0 were born in 2020
1 was born in 2021 (Power Squeeze)

[Flanders]

The insurance company took ownership and Coolmore bought him.

Why did the insurance company seize ownership?

Exactly what Northport said. They had fertility insurance on him but by taking the money, the insurance company took ownership. Claiborne tried to buy him back but Coolmore was determined to buy him. After they bought him, he stood in Ireland from 96-98, then was back in Ashford until he was pensioned in fall of 03. I wish I could remember if he shuttled or not. He has some AUS bred foals from 96-98 but they are all out of Northern Hemisphere bred mares, so maybe covered in Ireland and shipped to Australia?

[KatieK101]

Union Rags has had a similar trajectory. Came out guns blazing with 3 G1 winners in his first crop, peaked at a fee of $60,000 from 2018-2020, then kind of fell off a cliff.

Of his 15 best performers:
7 were born in 2014 (his first crop)
1 was born in 2015
0 were born in 2016
1 was born in 2017
4 were born in 2018 (after his first crop started showing a lot of talent as 3 year olds)
1 was born in 2019
0 were born in 2020
1 was born in 2021 (Power Squeeze)

Not sure how you’re judging his 15 best performers, but he’s gotten a second GSW this year in Circle of Trust.

His career did take a strange turn. I’m hoping he does well as a broodmare sire! Love the Dixie Union line, and he does get good fillies.

[Tessablue]

They gave stall 1 to Eddington because it was Unbridled's stall. Even though Unbridled was only at Claiborne for 5 years, they absolutely adored him. They thought it would be special to give the stall to one of his sons. That was also Lure's stall before the fertility claim his first year. The insurance company took ownership and Coolmore bought him. They couldn't get his fertility to improve and asked Claiborne if they'd like him back to be pensioned there. Which of course, they gladly accepted.

Yeah, it was absolutely the Unbridled connection. They really hoped he would be the heir apparent... sadly it was not to be.

Bit of an aside, but they really did adore Unbridled. I was fortunate to visit Claiborne in 2001, probably just a few months before his death. They let me (a tiny 10 year old girl) pet him and love on him while he was just standing there kindly on a loose lead... truly a special horse. I wish they'd had more time to love him.

[Northport]

Union Rags has had a similar trajectory. Came out guns blazing with 3 G1 winners in his first crop, peaked at a fee of $60,000 from 2018-2020, then kind of fell off a cliff.

Of his 15 best performers:
7 were born in 2014 (his first crop)
1 was born in 2015
0 were born in 2016
1 was born in 2017
4 were born in 2018 (after his first crop started showing a lot of talent as 3 year olds)
1 was born in 2019
0 were born in 2020
1 was born in 2021 (Power Squeeze)

Not sure how you’re judging his 15 best performers, but he’s gotten a second GSW this year in Circle of Trust.

His career did take a strange turn. I’m hoping he does well as a broodmare sire! Love the Dixie Union line, and he does get good fillies.

I followed this link
https://www.bloodhorse.com/stallion-reg ... union-rags

And clicked on “Lifetime Leading Runners”

[mahubah]

I dont think he'd be called a failure exactly, and Im not sure what you would call him, but probably the most magnificent horse Ive ever seen, Slew o Gold, had a pretty odd stud career. First crop had, I think, 4 grade 1 winners. After that his stud career tanked. Really strange.

Yeah, I mentioned him earlier. Such a shame…His filly, Gorgeous, was special - and a very underrated filly

**6 G1 winners in his 1st 2 crops

Can't say for sure, but I think Three Chimneys changed stallion managers after Slew o' Gold's first couple of seasons, and the one they had earlier apparently had a better grasp on the type of mare he needed to produce his best. He wasn't one of those horses who could suit a really wide variety of mares---magnificent-looking horse, but he had his share of soundness issues and needed mares that could offset those.

[Slewfan2]

I dont think he'd be called a failure exactly, and Im not sure what you would call him, but probably the most magnificent horse Ive ever seen, Slew o Gold, had a pretty odd stud career. First crop had, I think, 4 grade 1 winners. After that his stud career tanked. Really strange.

Yeah, I mentioned him earlier. Such a shame…His filly, Gorgeous, was special - and a very underrated filly

**6 G1 winners in his 1st 2 crops

Can't say for sure, but I think Three Chimneys changed stallion managers after Slew o' Gold's first couple of seasons, and the one they had earlier apparently had a better grasp on the type of mare he needed to produce his best. He wasn't one of those horses who could suit a really wide variety of mares---magnificent-looking horse, but he had his share of soundness issues and needed mares that could offset those.

Oh that’s interesting….it certainly helps explain why he struggled so much later on.

That makes me wonder how important is it to breed to the right kind of mares. For an example, Honor Code can get good ones, but he’s in Japan in part because he was so inconsistent. My theory has been that he was bred to routing mares to offset the fact that they assumed he couldn’t get Classic types on his own. But I think what that did was make his offspring mainly plodders - he was frankly unique, a brilliantly fast closer. I feel like if they’d bred him to speedier mares, he may have had more success. I think Secretariat had a similar issue.

[mahubah]

Yeah, I mentioned him earlier. Such a shame…His filly, Gorgeous, was special - and a very underrated filly

**6 G1 winners in his 1st 2 crops

Can't say for sure, but I think Three Chimneys changed stallion managers after Slew o' Gold's first couple of seasons, and the one they had earlier apparently had a better grasp on the type of mare he needed to produce his best. He wasn't one of those horses who could suit a really wide variety of mares---magnificent-looking horse, but he had his share of soundness issues and needed mares that could offset those.

Oh that’s interesting….it certainly helps explain why he struggled so much later on.

That makes me wonder how important is it to breed to the right kind of mares. For an example, Honor Code can get good ones, but he’s in Japan in part because he was so inconsistent. My theory has been that he was bred to routing mares to offset the fact that they assumed he couldn’t get Classic types on his own. But I think what that did was make his offspring mainly plodders - he was frankly unique, a brilliantly fast closer. I feel like if they’d bred him to speedier mares, he may have had more success. I think Secretariat had a similar issue.

In my opinion, it is very important to breed a stallion to mares that suit him. The elite stallions of the breed---the St. Simons, the Hyperions, the Bold Rulers, the Northern Dancers---have exceptionally well-balanced physical characteristics that can work with a large part of the mare population, but most stallions are not so blessed and need mates that complement their specific makeups if they are to produce their best. It often takes time to figure out what part of his pedigree a stallion is throwing to and what type of mare provides what he most needs, but time is what a stallion doesn't have in the hyper-competitive commercial market.

Secretariat, a magnificent physical specimen, threw more of his maternal grandsire Princequillo than his sire Bold Ruler into the mix, but everyone assumed that because he had such a terrific cruising speed, he'd throw speed like Daddy. What he was, at least in my opinion, was an extremely fast stayer without (and this is significant) a sharp turn of foot; he had such a high cruising speed and ability to carry it that he could kill off his opponents without needing a spectacular gear change. This is not atypical of American dirt horses, by the way; on dirt, the ability to get in gear early and find a rhythm that can carry a horse through the race is much more important than on turf---particularly in Europe, where the ability to switch gears rapidly is at a premium thanks to the nature of most European turf courses (ours are typically a lot flatter and more uniform throughout). Secretariat's ability to keep accelerating over a much longer distance than most horses could was truly remarkable, but it didn't change what he essentially was. That's why he needed mares with more of the explosive speed type to sire foals with an ideal blend of racing characteristics---staying-type mares essentially doubled down on his own strongest traits without supplying the extra spark of speed that he had himself gotten from Bold Ruler and from his maternal granddam, Imperatrice. It was unfortunate that, by the time breeders started figuring out what Secretariat really needed in a mate, he had already been labeled a disappointment (which, given the fact that he was actually a pretty good sire, says something for just how high the expectations for him were), but at least he was at Claiborne and at stud in a day and time in which breeders were a little more patient with a horse whose runners were projected to be two-turn horses.

To look at a different type of horse in a more modern setting, Smarty Jones does come to mind. Clearly, he was exceptionally talented, but I feel that his signature trait as a racehorse was extreme efficiency in how he used himself. He did not have either tremendous muscular power or exceptional stamina; what he had was exceptionally fluid, athletic movement which allowed him to go faster and further on a given amount of energy than a horse with perhaps greater gifts of raw potential for speed and stamina but less athleticism. This is a much more difficult quality to transmit because so many factors go into it, and horses that succeed based on this kind of exceptional athletic ability are almost always inconsistent sires because they simply can't supply a foal with everything that came together so perfectly in their own phenotypes---after all, they only provide half the genome. Favorite Trick was another of this sort; on paper, he should have had no business going beyond seven furlongs max, but he was an exceptionally fluid mover whose athletic efficiency let him go a bit further than his likely "true" stamina. For either of these horses to sire a top-class foal, they probably needed mares similar to themselves in balance and athleticism, and those are pretty tough to come by.

[Slewfan2]

Can't say for sure, but I think Three Chimneys changed stallion managers after Slew o' Gold's first couple of seasons, and the one they had earlier apparently had a better grasp on the type of mare he needed to produce his best. He wasn't one of those horses who could suit a really wide variety of mares---magnificent-looking horse, but he had his share of soundness issues and needed mares that could offset those.

Oh that’s interesting….it certainly helps explain why he struggled so much later on.

That makes me wonder how important is it to breed to the right kind of mares. For an example, Honor Code can get good ones, but he’s in Japan in part because he was so inconsistent. My theory has been that he was bred to routing mares to offset the fact that they assumed he couldn’t get Classic types on his own. But I think what that did was make his offspring mainly plodders - he was frankly unique, a brilliantly fast closer. I feel like if they’d bred him to speedier mares, he may have had more success. I think Secretariat had a similar issue.

In my opinion, it is very important to breed a stallion to mares that suit him. The elite stallions of the breed---the St. Simons, the Hyperions, the Bold Rulers, the Northern Dancers---have exceptionally well-balanced physical characteristics that can work with a large part of the mare population, but most stallions are not so blessed and need mates that complement their specific makeups if they are to produce their best. It often takes time to figure out what part of his pedigree a stallion is throwing to and what type of mare provides what he most needs, but time is what a stallion doesn't have in the hyper-competitive commercial market.

Secretariat, a magnificent physical specimen, threw more of his maternal grandsire Princequillo than his sire Bold Ruler into the mix, but everyone assumed that because he had such a terrific cruising speed, he'd throw speed like Daddy. What he was, at least in my opinion, was an extremely fast stayer without (and this is significant) a sharp turn of foot; he had such a high cruising speed and ability to carry it that he could kill off his opponents without needing a spectacular gear change. This is not atypical of American dirt horses, by the way; on dirt, the ability to get in gear early and find a rhythm that can carry a horse through the race is much more important than on turf---particularly in Europe, where the ability to switch gears rapidly is at a premium thanks to the nature of most European turf courses (ours are typically a lot flatter and more uniform throughout). Secretariat's ability to keep accelerating over a much longer distance than most horses could was truly remarkable, but it didn't change what he essentially was. That's why he needed mares with more of the explosive speed type to sire foals with an ideal blend of racing characteristics---staying-type mares essentially doubled down on his own strongest traits without supplying the extra spark of speed that he had himself gotten from Bold Ruler and from his maternal granddam, Imperatrice. It was unfortunate that, by the time breeders started figuring out what Secretariat really needed in a mate, he had already been labeled a disappointment (which, given the fact that he was actually a pretty good sire, says something for just how high the expectations for him were), but at least he was at Claiborne and at stud in a day and time in which breeders were a little more patient with a horse whose runners were projected to be two-turn horses.

To look at a different type of horse in a more modern setting, Smarty Jones does come to mind. Clearly, he was exceptionally talented, but I feel that his signature trait as a racehorse was extreme efficiency in how he used himself. He did not have either tremendous muscular power or exceptional stamina; what he had was exceptionally fluid, athletic movement which allowed him to go faster and further on a given amount of energy than a horse with perhaps greater gifts of raw potential for speed and stamina but less athleticism. This is a much more difficult quality to transmit because so many factors go into it, and horses that succeed based on this kind of exceptional athletic ability are almost always inconsistent sires because they simply can't supply a foal with everything that came together so perfectly in their own phenotypes---after all, they only provide half the genome. Favorite Trick was another of this sort; on paper, he should have had no business going beyond seven furlongs max, but he was an exceptionally fluid mover whose athletic efficiency let him go a bit further than his likely "true" stamina. For either of these horses to sire a top-class foal, they probably needed mares similar to themselves in balance and athleticism, and those are pretty tough to come by.

This is so fascinating - thank you!