Biggest "failures" at stud

[mahubah]

I agree with the no reason to think he'd be a good sire. He was named after a golf course in Barbados that Michael Tabor owned(he may still own, no clue). He did race 3 times, just managed a 3rd place finish, he was plagued by issues. Forestry was a hot sire at one point and maybe he should be on this list. I don't recall any other stallion naturally making his way to the 100k+ stud fee to just have his career completely collapse in Kentucky. It was was quite odd, he started at 50k(2000) and by 2007 was at 125k. Then it started to drop and by his last year in the US(2014) he was standing for 8k. This colt just happened to sell in 2006 when he was considered a hot sire. He worked a fast :9 4/5. Coolmore and Godolphin got in a pissing match over who was going to buy him, which led to his absurd sales price. His pedigree was good, pretty hot for the time. His dam was a 1/2 to MG2 Magicalmysterycat who was a 1.1m yearling and 1.7m broodmare prospect(2001). Their dam, MG2 Nannerl, had sold for 1.25m as a 15yo broodmare in 2002, which is high for a broodmare that age.

Oh I’m not saying his pedigree was bad, but it wasn’t the kind you spend that kind of money on. $50,000 is insane for a such a lightly raced sire. Thanks for reminding me that he did run. If I recall, they blathered on about how talented he was just because he worked so fast. People confuse workout times with afternoon performances..

The price was absurd. I could see them pay a couple million but it got out of hand and neither side wanted to lose. They were paying top racehorse breeding rights price for an unraced 2yo. Very stupid.

The 50k was for this sire Forestry, who did only race one year at 3 but managed 11 starts. His pedigree couldn't have been hotter when he went to stud in 2000. Storm Cat out of G1 Shared Interest whose first 2 foals were G1SWs (Forestry himself and 1999 BC Juvenile Fillies winner, Cash Run). He looked like he was going to be a very good stallion and then idk what happened. But when a stallion goes from 125k to 8k in 7 years its not good.

It was simple enough. Forestry was siring nice, big, pretty ponies for the yearling sales with remarkable consistency and if I recall correctly, was averaging about $250K in the ring at the time that he stood for $125K. Racehorses were something of another question other than banging out a pretty major hit with Discreet Cat; he was getting a fair number of stakes winners but most of them were pretty minor other than Carter Handicap (G1) winner Forest Danger. After a few years, people started figuring out that the emperor, if not exactly naked, was dressing out of Target rather than Saks Fifth Avenue. That sent his yearling prices into a slide, and Shackleford wasn't enough to resurrect his reputation. He was sold to Brazil in 2014 and did reasonably well in South America before his death in December of last year.

[Akitaperson]

Oh I’m not saying his pedigree was bad, but it wasn’t the kind you spend that kind of money on. $50,000 is insane for a such a lightly raced sire. Thanks for reminding me that he did run. If I recall, they blathered on about how talented he was just because he worked so fast. People confuse workout times with afternoon performances..

The price was absurd. I could see them pay a couple million but it got out of hand and neither side wanted to lose. They were paying top racehorse breeding rights price for an unraced 2yo. Very stupid.

The 50k was for this sire Forestry, who did only race one year at 3 but managed 11 starts. His pedigree couldn't have been hotter when he went to stud in 2000. Storm Cat out of G1 Shared Interest whose first 2 foals were G1SWs (Forestry himself and 1999 BC Juvenile Fillies winner, Cash Run). He looked like he was going to be a very good stallion and then idk what happened. But when a stallion goes from 125k to 8k in 7 years its not good.

It was simple enough. Forestry was siring nice, big, pretty ponies for the yearling sales with remarkable consistency and if I recall correctly, was averaging about $250K in the ring at the time that he stood for $125K. Racehorses were something of another question other than banging out a pretty major hit with Discreet Cat; he was getting a fair number of stakes winners but most of them were pretty minor other than Carter Handicap (G1) winner Forest Danger. After a few years, people started figuring out that the emperor, if not exactly naked, was dressing out of Target rather than Saks Fifth Avenue. That sent his yearling prices into a slide, and Shackleford wasn't enough to resurrect his reputation. He was sold to Brazil in 2014 and did reasonably well in South America before his death in December of last year.

Even Shackleford is now no long in the US

[Missbeholder]

I remember when Aaron Jones paid $3M for Manistique in the 505 Farms Dispersal Sale at Barretts (I was there)......think it was around 2001 or so, not sure. He was apparently pretty obsessed with breeding her to his stallion Forestry. According to PQ (yeah, I know), Manistique did produce two named foals to Forestry but with no success. She was such an Amazon mare, Zenyatta-type big, I don't know what Jones's thing was with her and Forestry, but he certainly had a bug for that match.......he paid $3M to make it happen!

[sweettalk]

i guess this was really a more personal disappointment as well, but i really, really wanted bernstein to do better (he had a few big names like tepin and karakontie who i was hoping would do better, as well). losing him young didn't help.

[mahubah]

i guess this was really a more personal disappointment as well, but i really, really wanted bernstein to do better (he had a few big names like tepin and karakontie who i was hoping would do better, as well). losing him young didn't help.

As a mere Group 3 winner in Kentucky, Bernstein was going to have a lot of trouble getting traction there no matter how great his pedigree was. He was hardly a failure, though, especially when his international career is considered---he led the Argentine general sire list in 2009 and 2011 and was champion broodmare sire in 2020 per El Turf.com (the Stud Book Argentino had him 2nd that year), this off of shuttling to Argentina for seven seasons. Of his 590 Argentine-sired foals, 333 were winners, 47 won stakes races, 27 were Group winners, and 14 won at the Group 1 level based on races run in-country.

[Izvestia]

Would Dance Brightly fall under this category? He was by Mr Prospector out of Dance Smartly, making him very similarly bred to Smart Strike (who was a half bro to Dance Smartly).

[Diver52]

How about Our Emblem? IIRC he was sold for a large amount after War Emblem won the Derby, but never produced much more.

[sweettalk]

i guess this was really a more personal disappointment as well, but i really, really wanted bernstein to do better (he had a few big names like tepin and karakontie who i was hoping would do better, as well). losing him young didn't help.

As a mere Group 3 winner in Kentucky, Bernstein was going to have a lot of trouble getting traction there no matter how great his pedigree was. He was hardly a failure, though, especially when his international career is considered---he led the Argentine general sire list in 2009 and 2011 and was champion broodmare sire in 2020 per El Turf.com (the Stud Book Argentino had him 2nd that year), this off of shuttling to Argentina for seven seasons. Of his 590 Argentine-sired foals, 333 were winners, 47 won stakes races, 27 were Group winners, and 14 won at the Group 1 level based on races run in-country.

oh man really?? i wasn't sure he'd even done well there, i obviously didn't bother looking. that's great to hear tho. i'm glad to read this, made my day and it just started thank you.

[halo]

Alysheba was a pretty spectacular race horse, but I think his stud career was extremely disappointing.

[Missbeholder]

Alysheba was a pretty spectacular race horse, but I think his stud career was extremely disappointing.

It's pretty hard for an average fan in America to fairly evaluate Alysheba's stud career because he spent most, if not all, of his life as a stallion in Saudi Arabia. Info on everyday racing and breeding there isn't exactly free flowing if you don’t know the right sources to tap.

Alydar was a fabulous sire of racehorses, but his record as a sire of sires is pretty sadly lacking. Chances probably are that if Alysheba had been at stud here in the states with more availability of information and domestic-based books, he might have struggled. But I know there are people on this board who may know how to dig for more statistical details about Alysheba's exploits in the Saudi desert.

[halo]

He had already produced 10 crops of foals here before moving to Saudi Arabia (foaled in 1984, moved to SA in 2000), so its likely the move to SA was in response to a lackluster production record.

[Missbeholder]

He had already produced 10 crops of foals here before moving to Saudi Arabia (foaled in 1984, moved to SA in 2000), so its likely the move to SA was in response to a lackluster production record.

Thanks. I didn't realize that he had covered that many books here domestically before being relocated. I appreciate the correction.

[mahubah]

Aside from Canadian Horse of the Year Alywow , French Group 1 winner Moonlight Dance, and the good staying French mare Bright Moon (a multiple G2 winner), there wasn't much to be said for Alysheba's stud career. Criminal Type was an even worse flop, but I have to admit that his Horse of the Year campaign was one of the weaker ones I've seen through the decade---had either Easy Goer or Sunday Silence remained sound through the fall, CT would not have been an Eclipse winner.

[Tessablue]

Smarty Jones retired to stud right when the stallion bubble was at its peak; I remember a lot of people making fun of the stud fee because he just didn't have much pedigree backing it up. I was rooting for him, but his lack of success at stud was not surprising at all, sadly.

The stud who comes to mind for me, oddly, is Eddington. I don't recall a ton of fanfare when he retired, but I saw him at Claiborne shortly afterwards. They had him in Secretariat's stall and were very excited about him... 15 years later, he's in California and has only produced one real horse of note (Secret Circle). Wish it had turned out better for Claiborne

[TapitsGal]

Smarty Jones retired to stud right when the stallion bubble was at its peak; I remember a lot of people making fun of the stud fee because he just didn't have much pedigree backing it up. I was rooting for him, but his lack of success at stud was not surprising at all, sadly.

The stud who comes to mind for me, oddly, is Eddington. I don't recall a ton of fanfare when he retired, but I saw him at Claiborne shortly afterwards. They had him in Secretariat's stall and were very excited about him... 15 years later, he's in California and has only produced one real horse of note (Secret Circle). Wish it had turned out better for Claiborne

For me, Runhappy comes to mind

[HB1994]

Afleet Alex?

[KatieK101]

Not sure Bodemeister would be considered a huge failure at stud, but I remember there was a lot of hype surrounding him after he got Always Dreaming from his first crop, but he didn't go on to produce much afterward; American Anthem went on to be a MGSW and he got G1W Bodexpress a couple crops later, but that's about it.

Maybe someone will remember better than I do, but did he get better mares after Always Dreaming won the Derby? Or did the quality of his books stay about the same?

[Mylute]

Birdstone never really took off despite having 2 Classic winners in I believe either his first or second crop.

He trucked along through the years with SWs like Noble Bird, Swipe, Thank You Marylou, etc. but no more standouts. By some metrics he could be considered a "failure" but on the other hand, he didn't do too terribly. Nice that he got to stay at Gainesway his whole career and didn't get shuffled around the country.

And his son Summer Bird sired a few GSWs in America before going to Japan after 3 crops and dying the same year.

[Diver52]

Smarty Jones retired to stud right when the stallion bubble was at its peak; I remember a lot of people making fun of the stud fee because he just didn't have much pedigree backing it up. I was rooting for him, but his lack of success at stud was not surprising at all, sadly.

The stud who comes to mind for me, oddly, is Eddington. I don't recall a ton of fanfare when he retired, but I saw him at Claiborne shortly afterwards. They had him in Secretariat's stall and were very excited about him... 15 years later, he's in California and has only produced one real horse of note (Secret Circle). Wish it had turned out better for Claiborne

I saw him there at Claiborne too, it was 2013 IIRC (anyway, Orb's year). I remember being surprised that he was in Secretariat's stall but maybe it is just random depending on when they arrive and which stall is available.

[brunanas]

Smarty Jones retired to stud right when the stallion bubble was at its peak; I remember a lot of people making fun of the stud fee because he just didn't have much pedigree backing it up. I was rooting for him, but his lack of success at stud was not surprising at all, sadly.

The stud who comes to mind for me, oddly, is Eddington. I don't recall a ton of fanfare when he retired, but I saw him at Claiborne shortly afterwards. They had him in Secretariat's stall and were very excited about him... 15 years later, he's in California and has only produced one real horse of note (Secret Circle). Wish it had turned out better for Claiborne

I saw him there at Claiborne too, it was 2013 IIRC (anyway, Orb's year). I remember being surprised that he was in Secretariat's stall but maybe it is just random depending on when they arrive and which stall is available.

there's a photo of Runhappy in that stall when he arrived and Eddington's name plate isn't there. but idk if it was because it was just a transitory stall for him or if he wasn't worthy enough of having the name plate kept there.