Biggest "failures" at stud

[brunanas]

obviously many colts go off to stud with really high expectations but end up producing nothing or close to nothing. but in your opinion, who is the biggest failure in that sense? new or old.

[Nenikikamen23]

They didn't all have "massive" expectations, but Golden Horn, Will Take Charge, Take Charge Indy, A Shin Hikari, Highland Reel, Air Force Blue, U S Navy Flag, etc. come to mind recently.

Older, off the top of my head Spectacular Bid, Alysheba, Whirlaway, and Challedon

[mahubah]

To make this fair, let's eliminate horses that turned out to be sterile or nearly so, such as Cigar. That was a huge disappointment, but I can't call him a stud failure based on a stud career that he never had.

Also, I would consider a stallion's pedigree when deciding on the magnitude of his flop at stud. A pretty fair number of champions who were indifferent or worse at stud were horses who "outran their pedigrees" and were obviously at a disadvantage when competing with talented horses who had much deeper bloodlines, so all other things being equal (including stallion performance), I would rate the horse with the superior pedigree as being the worse flop.

Rhythm comes to mind as being a pretty complete bust, other than a couple of high-quality runners in New Zealand. Champion at 2, G1 winner at 3, by sire of sires Mr. Prospector, and from one of the best sire-producing branches of the great La Troienne family. To add insult to injury, his full brother Not for Love (stakes-placed on the track) was a good regional sire in Maryland, and his "nephew" Mutakddim was a champion sire in Argentina.

[stelladaniella]

I instantly think of Tourist and Genuine Reward. They may not have been the biggest "failures", but def didn't live up to expectations.
Tourist is a Breeders Cup winning son of Tiznow, so he def had some expectations when he was set to stud at WinStar. Failure to produce wow-factor foals in his first few crops and WinStar said you gotta go buddy, bye.
Genuine Reward too.. Only son to make it to stud o/o Genny, since Westley was gelded, and him being by Rahy sure made the expectations a bit higher. However no luck, and was found on Craigslist later for $500 "obo"... Sickening. Some of his foals also faced the same fate.

Another one, Exceller. He sired some notable foals, but wasn't enough.

[Missbeholder]

The one I always think of when presented this question is Fusaichi Pegasus. A $4M sales yearling by Mr. Prospector out of a Danzig half sister to a Preakness winner. A Kentucky Derby winner (actually the only GI race he won), he was valued at $60M when he entered stud at Coolmore in 2002. After an 18 year stallion career, he was pensioned in 2020 with only about 3 or 4 GI winners, at least that I know of.

By expectation, even just based on pedigree alone, he has to be one of the biggest "failures" at stud, at least of this century so far.

[Slewfan2]

Citation

But this subject did give me a laugh. I Googled this subject, and ended up at a similar thread on Derby Trail forums from 2006

Apparently AP Indy was a failure because he’d only sired 1 Classic winner, with the best mares and highest stud fees

[Palace Malice]

Smarty Jones and Fusaichi Pegasus in America.

In Japan some big names that were highly loved by fans and failed;
Oguri Cap, Tokai Teio, Narita Brian, Mejiro McQueen, TM Opera O

[Akitaperson]

The Green Monkey
-he had an out of the US tc winner but for a horse who once sold for 16 million as a 2 year old he flopped

[Holly1972]

War Emblem. Sold to Japan for $17.7 million, was fertile, just had no interest in mares

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Fusaichi Pegasus
The Green Monkey
Big Brown
Snaafi Dancer
American Pharoah (the initial major hype didn't match his high stud fee price)
Mr. Sekiguchi
Spectacular Bid
Smarty Jones

[Akitaperson]

Fusaichi Pegasus
The Green Monkey
Big Brown
Snaafi Dancer
American Pharoah (the initial major hype didn't match his high stud fee price)
Mr. Sekiguchi
Spectacular Bid
Smarty Jones

I don't care what a stud did on the track but I always felt for brand new stallions Justify and Pharoah entered stud for way to high a fee. Untried stallions imo should not enter stud at fees rivaling proven stallions

[Eohippus]

Fusaichi Pegasus
The Green Monkey
Big Brown
Snaafi Dancer
American Pharoah (the initial major hype didn't match his high stud fee price)
Mr. Sekiguchi
Spectacular Bid
Smarty Jones

Yeah, considering the books he has gotten American Pharoah is what first came to mind when I saw this thread

[Psychotic Parakeet]

Fusaichi Pegasus
The Green Monkey
Big Brown
Snaafi Dancer
American Pharoah (the initial major hype didn't match his high stud fee price)
Mr. Sekiguchi
Spectacular Bid
Smarty Jones

I don't care what a stud did on the track but I always felt for brand new stallions Justify and Pharoah entered stud for way to high a fee. Untried stallions imo should not enter stud at fees rivaling proven stallions

Absolutely. I think even Fusaichi Pegasus and Smarty Jones started out for over $100k, and Bid went for around $150k. American Pharoah going from $200k to $50k is a pretty huge hit.

[Diver52]

I remember decades ago thinking Dayjur (Danzig x champion Gold Beauty, by Mr. Prospector), notorious for jumping a shadow and jumping himself out of a Breeders' Cup Sprint win, was a slam-dunk to succeed, but I don't think he sired much. I believe he stood in the UK.

[Flanders]

I remember decades ago thinking Dayjur (Danzig x champion Gold Beauty, by Mr. Prospector), notorious for jumping a shadow and jumping himself out of a Breeders' Cup Sprint win, was a slam-dunk to succeed, but I don't think he sired much. I believe he stood in the UK.

He was in Kentucky at Shadwell, he only got 2 G1SWs, one in the UK and one in Brazil.

[mahubah]

Would agree Dayjur was disappointing, and Big Brown too, though the latter's immediate female family was a little on the weak side. Tourist, too, has a weakish distaff line, which probably didn't help him any when coupled with the perception that Tiznow was not a "sire of sires."

Fu Peg actually did slightly better than noted above but was sure erratic and a major disappointment, especially considering all the chances he got (2098 named foals of racing age!). He did get champions Haradasun (Australia), Bronzo (Chile), and Floral Pegasus (Hong Kong), plus G1 winners Bandini, Champ Pegasus, and Roman Ruler, the last-named a two-time champion sire in Argentina. From so many foals, though, I guess a horse would practically have to come up with something good if he wasn't a genetic disaster.

Citation was disappointing, but I think he sometimes gets a little shorter shrift than he deserves, given that he did sire Preakness winner Fabius and champion filly Silver Spoon. He was like Gallant Fox in that his first couple of crops were far better than what he sired later in his career. Speaking of Triple Crown winners, Omaha was a huge disappointment who sired nothing remotely approaching his own talent, though his name remains alive in pedigrees through a few broodmare daughters. He was probably too much a thoroughgoing stayer for American racing. Sir Barton was also a poor sire, his only really good runner being Kentucky Oaks winner Easter Stockings; his handicap was the bad feet all too often passed through the line of his sire Star Shoot.

[Slewfan2]

I don’t get why Green Monkey is named. Despite his purchase price, he didn’t have that great a pedigree…and, he never ran. There really was no reason to think he’d be a good sire…

I hesitate to put him here because ….but Ferdinand

[Flanders]

I don’t get why Green Monkey is named. Despite his purchase price, he didn’t have that great a pedigree…and, he never ran. There really was no reason to think he’d be a good sire…

I hesitate to put him here because ….but Ferdinand

I agree with the no reason to think he'd be a good sire. He was named after a golf course in Barbados that Michael Tabor owned(he may still own, no clue). He did race 3 times, just managed a 3rd place finish, he was plagued by issues. Forestry was a hot sire at one point and maybe he should be on this list. I don't recall any other stallion naturally making his way to the 100k+ stud fee to just have his career completely collapse in Kentucky. It was was quite odd, he started at 50k(2000) and by 2007 was at 125k. Then it started to drop and by his last year in the US(2014) he was standing for 8k. This colt just happened to sell in 2006 when he was considered a hot sire. He worked a fast :9 4/5. Coolmore and Godolphin got in a pissing match over who was going to buy him, which led to his absurd sales price. His pedigree was good, pretty hot for the time. His dam was a 1/2 to MG2 Magicalmysterycat who was a 1.1m yearling and 1.7m broodmare prospect(2001). Their dam, MG2 Nannerl, had sold for 1.25m as a 15yo broodmare in 2002, which is high for a broodmare that age.

[Slewfan2]

I don’t get why Green Monkey is named. Despite his purchase price, he didn’t have that great a pedigree…and, he never ran. There really was no reason to think he’d be a good sire…

I hesitate to put him here because ….but Ferdinand

I agree with the no reason to think he'd be a good sire. He was named after a golf course in Barbados that Michael Tabor owned(he may still own, no clue). He did race 3 times, just managed a 3rd place finish, he was plagued by issues. Forestry was a hot sire at one point and maybe he should be on this list. I don't recall any other stallion naturally making his way to the 100k+ stud fee to just have his career completely collapse in Kentucky. It was was quite odd, he started at 50k(2000) and by 2007 was at 125k. Then it started to drop and by his last year in the US(2014) he was standing for 8k. This colt just happened to sell in 2006 when he was considered a hot sire. He worked a fast :9 4/5. Coolmore and Godolphin got in a pissing match over who was going to buy him, which led to his absurd sales price. His pedigree was good, pretty hot for the time. His dam was a 1/2 to MG2 Magicalmysterycat who was a 1.1m yearling and 1.7m broodmare prospect(2001). Their dam, MG2 Nannerl, had sold for 1.25m as a 15yo broodmare in 2002, which is high for a broodmare that age.

Oh I’m not saying his pedigree was bad, but it wasn’t the kind you spend that kind of money on. $50,000 is insane for a such a lightly raced sire. Thanks for reminding me that he did run. If I recall, they blathered on about how talented he was just because he worked so fast. People confuse workout times with afternoon performances..

[Flanders]

I don’t get why Green Monkey is named. Despite his purchase price, he didn’t have that great a pedigree…and, he never ran. There really was no reason to think he’d be a good sire…

I hesitate to put him here because ….but Ferdinand

I agree with the no reason to think he'd be a good sire. He was named after a golf course in Barbados that Michael Tabor owned(he may still own, no clue). He did race 3 times, just managed a 3rd place finish, he was plagued by issues. Forestry was a hot sire at one point and maybe he should be on this list. I don't recall any other stallion naturally making his way to the 100k+ stud fee to just have his career completely collapse in Kentucky. It was was quite odd, he started at 50k(2000) and by 2007 was at 125k. Then it started to drop and by his last year in the US(2014) he was standing for 8k. This colt just happened to sell in 2006 when he was considered a hot sire. He worked a fast :9 4/5. Coolmore and Godolphin got in a pissing match over who was going to buy him, which led to his absurd sales price. His pedigree was good, pretty hot for the time. His dam was a 1/2 to MG2 Magicalmysterycat who was a 1.1m yearling and 1.7m broodmare prospect(2001). Their dam, MG2 Nannerl, had sold for 1.25m as a 15yo broodmare in 2002, which is high for a broodmare that age.

Oh I’m not saying his pedigree was bad, but it wasn’t the kind you spend that kind of money on. $50,000 is insane for a such a lightly raced sire. Thanks for reminding me that he did run. If I recall, they blathered on about how talented he was just because he worked so fast. People confuse workout times with afternoon performances..

The price was absurd. I could see them pay a couple million but it got out of hand and neither side wanted to lose. They were paying top racehorse breeding rights price for an unraced 2yo. Very stupid.

The 50k was for this sire Forestry, who did only race one year at 3 but managed 11 starts. His pedigree couldn't have been hotter when he went to stud in 2000. Storm Cat out of G1 Shared Interest whose first 2 foals were G1SWs (Forestry himself and 1999 BC Juvenile Fillies winner, Cash Run). He looked like he was going to be a very good stallion and then idk what happened. But when a stallion goes from 125k to 8k in 7 years its not good.