Zenyatta News

[Mylute]

super outside of the box: Kitten's Joy x Zenyatta is a B+ on TN.

[Flanders]

Heck, why not send her to Gun Runner?

Don't they already have a Candy Ride?

I initially joined this forum way back when, to gain insights into TB breeding from the perspective of a dog breeder interested in breeding patterns and how they work in other species.

But the more I observe, the more frustrated I become -- at the lack of imagination, the apparent inability to plan beyond one generation, and the speed at which horses are discarded when they turn out not to be superstar material vs the eagerness to breed to stallions so crooked they can barely support their own weight. Maybe it's just a distortion caused by wealth -- the people whoown the top race mares know shit about breeding. The ones who do know their shit, can't afford to buy them.

Ok. rant over. I know nothing.

Before I say what I'm going to say, I'm not being critical of what you said at all, just continuing the conversation.

Its not a new thing though, its always been done or I can think of multiple examples for both, which means there has to be more out there. Maybe it might have taken longer for decisions to be made on stallions but they were almost always moved on when they failed. With the hyper huge stallion books the decisions are just made faster. Count Fleet never raced after the Belmont. Whirlaway was leased then sold to France when his first crop was 4yos(for some reason he had one foal born in the year he actually entered stud, maybe a test breeding from the previous year?). Chateaugay only stood in the US for a handful of years before being sold to stud in Japan. Danzig only managed 3 starts because of bad knees that he usually passed on. Nureyev and Hoist The Flag were both gravely injured and saved for stud duty. Mr. Prospector also had some conformation issues, that effected the amount he could race. But then I could use Sunday Silence as a horse they passed over in the US for crooked legs.

Nothing makes sense of their choices. And you are absolutely correct that most breeders don't think beyond one generation because they sell on the foals. Truly I don't know if a lot even think they, they just got for most commercially appealing in their price range and that is that. The times you see a cross that would be considered strange, like I think was the reaction to Leslie's Lady being sent to Kantharos and Not This Time, the owner intended to keep the resulting foals if fillies, which they got. But both of those stallions are in the brokedown and were retired at 2 category.

[swale1984]

super outside of the box: Kitten's Joy x Zenyatta is a B+ on TN.

I hadn't considered him, but I always wanted them to send her to Giant's Causeway (play off the amazing Storm Cat/Mr P cross that had worked so well)

[BaroqueAgain1]

What would you think of breeding her to the promising young Giant's Causeway son, Not This Time?

[HB1994]

Nymue is definitely her mom’s Mini-Me.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9APCx6R ... p5c2JjcXF3

[Diver52]

Nymue is definitely her mom’s Mini-Me.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9APCx6R ... p5c2JjcXF3

Bunch of silly girls!

[mahubah]

Just a few comments on the some of the stallions mentioned earlier. Count Fleet was no conformation model, but the Belmont was his 21st start, so he wasn't all that fragile. Whirlaway was beautifully made and a very sound horse, but he was sold in no small part because Calumet trainer Ben Jones bluntly told Warren Wright that Bull Lea was much superior as a sire (as his runners were busy proving) and that too many of the Whirlaways were head cases; also, Marcel Boussac (the buyer) was trying pretty desperately to come up with an outcross sire for his once-fabled breeding program, so I'd guess that the price was right. Danzig was indeed prone to knee problems and passed them on, but he also passed on balance and brilliant speed; it's probably no coincidence that his sire line has thrived most in countries where turf racing is the norm, since grass is generally kinder to horses with iffy knees than dirt tracks are. BTW, Danzig would never have gotten on the Claiborne roster without the advocacy of his trainer, Woody Stephens, who was emphatic about Danzig being probably the most talented horse he had ever trained.

Mr. Prospector was not exactly a train wreck as he was handsome enough to be the sale topper at Keeneland July in 1971. He did turn out on his right fore (as did Seattle Slew), but his primary problem on the track may not have been his conformation but a case of Derby fever contracted by owner Butch Savin. I talked to his trainer, Jimmy Croll. when I was writing my book Gold Rush: How Mr. Prospector Became Racing's Billion-Dollar Sire, and Croll was pretty open about his belief that the owner's push to try to get Mr. Prospector ready for the Derby off a record-breaking allowance win over six furlongs on March 31 was the primary cause of the horse's issues---he was never quite the same after getting hurt in the Derby Trial, a race in which he stumbled badly after being slammed from both sides while coming out of the gate. As a stallion, Mr. Prospector did commonly throw that turn-out on the right fore, but he also typically bequeathed very strong hindquarters and an excellent hind leg, and he did earn his way up to Kentucky after starting out in Florida.

What's really crazy in the current stallion market besides the too-rapid disposal of stallions that haven't proven big commercial successes right out of the gate at the sales or with their first 2-year-olds is the inevitable boom-and-bust created by risk-averse breeders who won't touch a horse during the "bubble years"---that starves the horse of mares in his second through fourth years, and then if he actually gets some real runners from that first crop, he'll get a bump up in quality and quantity of mares in year 5, assuming he's still around, and the cycle repeats itself unless he's lucky enough to have some good stuff come out of those smaller "bubble year" crops.

[Delamont]

Just a few comments on the some of the stallions mentioned earlier. Count Fleet was no conformation model, but the Belmont was his 21st start, so he wasn't all that fragile. Whirlaway was beautifully made and a very sound horse, but he was sold in no small part because Calumet trainer Ben Jones bluntly told Warren Wright that Bull Lea was much superior as a sire (as his runners were busy proving) and that too many of the Whirlaways were head cases; also, Marcel Boussac (the buyer) was trying pretty desperately to come up with an outcross sire for his once-fabled breeding program, so I'd guess that the price was right. Danzig was indeed prone to knee problems and passed them on, but he also passed on balance and brilliant speed; it's probably no coincidence that his sire line has thrived most in countries where turf racing is the norm, since grass is generally kinder to horses with iffy knees than dirt tracks are. BTW, Danzig would never have gotten on the Claiborne roster without the advocacy of his trainer, Woody Stephens, who was emphatic about Danzig being probably the most talented horse he had ever trained.

Mr. Prospector was not exactly a train wreck as he was handsome enough to be the sale topper at Keeneland July in 1971. He did turn out on his right fore (as did Seattle Slew), but his primary problem on the track may not have been his conformation but a case of Derby fever contracted by owner Butch Savin. I talked to his trainer, Jimmy Croll. when I was writing my book Gold Rush: How Mr. Prospector Became Racing's Billion-Dollar Sire, and Croll was pretty open about his belief that the owner's push to try to get Mr. Prospector ready for the Derby off a record-breaking allowance win over six furlongs on March 31 was the primary cause of the horse's issues---he was never quite the same after getting hurt in the Derby Trial, a race in which he stumbled badly after being slammed from both sides while coming out of the gate. As a stallion, Mr. Prospector did commonly throw that turn-out on the right fore, but he also typically bequeathed very strong hindquarters and an excellent hind leg, and he did earn his way up to Kentucky after starting out in Florida.

What's really crazy in the current stallion market besides the too-rapid disposal of stallions that haven't proven big commercial successes right out of the gate at the sales or with their first 2-year-olds is the inevitable boom-and-bust created by risk-averse breeders who won't touch a horse during the "bubble years"---that starves the horse of mares in his second through fourth years, and then if he actually gets some real runners from that first crop, he'll get a bump up in quality and quantity of mares in year 5, assuming he's still around, and the cycle repeats itself unless he's lucky enough to have some good stuff come out of those smaller "bubble year" crops.

Not sure what this has to do with Zenyatta news.

[Northport]

Neither do I, but it was still 10 times more interesting than any Zenyatta news in the last 5 years.

[Rainyday]

Neither do I, but it was still 10 times more interesting than any Zenyatta news in the last 5 years.

I second this. It was so interesting I forgot which thread I was in.

[Missbeholder]

mahuba gave herself away here by referencing her own book, "Gold Rush: How Mr Prospector Became Racing's Billion-Dollar Sire".

This is Avalyn Hunter. How she managed to put this post up in a "Zenyatta News" thread here is a bit of a mystery, but I don't think she's very active in discussion forums (at least that I've seen). From the opening statement of her post, it looks to me like this wasn't the thread she intended it to be in.

I think we need to be happy that she took the time to give us some of her thoughts.

[Flanders]

I've seen the same happen to quite a few people on here. I know I've been guilty of it because I open multiple posts at the same time, read them, don't close them and think I'm replying to the one I want and I'm not.

Anyway here is a short clip of Nymue that Lane's End posted earlier with some other yearling fillies.

https://x.com/LanesEndFarms/status/1808870880564445637

[Starine]

Neither do I, but it was still 10 times more interesting than any Zenyatta news in the last 5 years.

I second this. It was so interesting I forgot which thread I was in.

Thirded. Please feel free to pipe up more often, Mahubah.

[mahubah]

Sorry if I kind of confused people. I'm not around on the forum all that often since I'm busy with writing a book on Holy Bull and with keeping my own website updated, but there's some really interesting threads here.

[brunanas]

mahubah, do you plan on ever writing another book similar to American Classic Pedigrees? has to be one of my favorites ever, i'd love to read another one like it.

[mahubah]

mahubah, do you plan on ever writing another book similar to American Classic Pedigrees? has to be one of my favorites ever, i'd love to read another one like it.

I doubt I could find a publisher to do that again. But I do have a website, www.americanclassicpedigrees.com, that expands on the same concept. It's all free-access and will be as long as I'm running it, so look around anytime. And yes, there is a page on the mighty Zenyatta!

[brunanas]

mahubah, do you plan on ever writing another book similar to American Classic Pedigrees? has to be one of my favorites ever, i'd love to read another one like it.

I doubt I could find a publisher to do that again. But I do have a website, www.americanclassicpedigrees.com, that expands on the same concept. It's all free-access and will be as long as I'm running it, so look around anytime. And yes, there is a page on the mighty Zenyatta!

i love just laying in bed and scrolling through there . can't wait for your Holy Bull book though!!

[HB1994]

Another photo of Nymue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9dDT84pmSv ... doYzZrYw==

[Akitaperson]

Another photo of Nymue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9dDT84pmSv ... doYzZrYw==

Given this gorgeous girl is the last Z foal I would love to see her go to another trainer. Trainer that's been used yeah he worked for Zenyatta but he's flopped with every single one of her foals.

[Delamont]

Another photo of Nymue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9dDT84pmSv ... doYzZrYw==

Given this gorgeous girl is the last Z foal I would love to see her go to another trainer. Trainer that's been used yeah he worked for Zenyatta but he's flopped with every single one of her foals.

Wonder if we'll ever see Nymue on the track.