2024 Belmont Stakes at Saratoga

[CoronadosQuest]

At first I was caught off guard by it as well. He was reusing Durkin's "A filly in the Belmont", from when Rags to Riches won. But he meant "Philly" cause Jayson Werth, one of Dornoch's owners, won the World Series with the Philadelphia Phillies. I think he thought he was being clever but truth I don't know much about MLB and I would imagine a lot of horse racing fans don't either.

OH that makes more sense, I was like 'wow poor Dornoch, 17-1 and they thought he was a filly this whole time!'

[Flanders]

At first I was caught off guard by it as well. He was reusing Durkin's "A filly in the Belmont", from when Rags to Riches won. But he meant "Philly" cause Jayson Werth, one of Dornoch's owners, won the World Series with the Philadelphia Phillies. I think he thought he was being clever but truth I don't know much about MLB and I would imagine a lot of horse racing fans don't either.

OH that makes more sense, I was like 'wow poor Dornoch, 17-1 and they thought he was a filly this whole time!'

Maybe I'm being an ass but I felt it diminished the effort of the horse and everyone else involved. He must have felt he needed to come up with "clever" phrases to use if different horses won. But reusing Durkin's phrase and trying to be clever didn't hit with me. I guess, whatever. At least he didn't call the wrong horse like he did in the Woody Stephens. Like he kept saying Imagination, I think he was talking about Nutella Fella? Cause he never mentioned him until after the wire. https://youtu.be/YSmS6g-k-eg?t=76

[stark]

Does anybody wish the Belmont was a mile and half yesterday?

[mariasmon]

Does anybody wish the Belmont was a mile and half yesterday?

Not really. It was a good race and most of the horses I was hoping would show up for it did. Ask me again next year if there's a TC on the line.

[HB1994]

Maybe SL needs a trainer change in addition to a jockey change. CB can obviously train a a good horse, but maybe SL just needs someone different.

[Retrospectiv]

Posted on Coolmore's page:

Kentucky Derby runner-up and Belmont Stakes third Sierra Leone will be aimed at the Gr.1 Travers Stakes at Saratoga

[stark]

Maybe SL needs a trainer change in addition to a jockey change. CB can obviously train a a good horse, but maybe SL just needs someone different.

Or maybe he's a turf horse?

[HB1994]

Maybe SL needs a trainer change in addition to a jockey change. CB can obviously train a a good horse, but maybe SL just needs someone different.

Or maybe he's a turf horse?

Coolmore’s got plenty of turf stallions. They want to make SL their next big dirt sire.

[Curtis]

Thoughts, Observations and Musings

1) I remember Jayson Werth well. I remember him 20 years ago as a clean shaven right fielder with the 2004 Los Angeles Dodgers. After a back injury, he resurfaced with the Philadelphia Phillies where he played right field for both the 2008 World Series winners and the 2009 National League Pennant winners. That success earned him a contract of a life changing amount with the Washington Nationals. That contract was of a level that one can buy into expensive racehorses.

2) In this day and age could it be that Dornoch identifies as a filly or a Phillie for that matter? Let’s not have any value judgements.

3) Baseball and Horse Racing have been intertwined for over a century. The Galbreath family of Darby Dan fame owned the Pittsburgh Pirates for many years. Thus they were the only family to owns both a World Series winner, which the Pirates were in 1960, ‘71 & ‘79, and. Kentucky Derby winner, Châteauguay in 1963. Galbreath had a partner with the Pirates, Bing Crosby, who owned several horses as well as a racetrack, Del Mar. The first horse ever to win a race at Del Mar was Crosby’s High Strike, fittingly enough. George Steinbrenner also dabbled in both.

4) The actual term in reference to Saratoga is “Graveyard of Champions”. Man O’ War, Gallant Fox, Riva Ridge, Secretariat, American Pharoah, etc. were all champions who met their match at the Spa. The moniker was created because of Jim Dandy’s long shot victory over Gallant Fox in the 1930 Travers. Thus, two terms entered into the lexicon—not to be confused with Lexington— of horse racing lore because of Gallant Fox, Triple Crown and the aforementioned Graveyard of Champions. Gallant Fox is also the only TC winner to sire another as his son Omaha swept the series in 1935.

5) If a farm exists that can correct paddling, I’m going to hit up Jayson Werth to get a loan and buy stock. That would be far more lucrative than buying horses.

[stark]

Thoughts, Observations and Musings

1) I remember Jayson Werth well. I remember him 20 years ago as a clean shaven right fielder with the 2004 Los Angeles Dodgers. After a back injury, he resurfaced with the Philadelphia Phillies where he played right field for both the 2008 World Series winners and the 2009 National League Pennant winners. That success earned him a contract of a life changing amount with the Washington Nationals. That contract was of a level that one can buy into expensive racehorses.

2) In this day and age could it be that Dornoch identifies as a filly or a Phillie for that matter? Let’s not have any value judgements.

3) Baseball and Horse Racing have been intertwined for over a century. The Galbreath family of Darby Dan fame owned the Pittsburgh Pirates for many years. Thus they were the only family to owns both a World Series winner, which the Pirates were in 1960, ‘71 & ‘79, and. Kentucky Derby winner, Châteauguay in 1963. Galbreath had a partner with the Pirates, Bing Crosby, who owned several horses as well as a racetrack, Del Mar. The first horse ever to win a race at Del Mar was Crosby’s High Strike, fittingly enough. George Steinbrenner also dabbled in both.

4) The actual term in reference to Saratoga is “Graveyard of Champions”. Man O’ War, Gallant Fox, Riva Ridge, Secretariat, American Pharoah, etc. were all champions who met their match at the Spa. The moniker was created because of Jim Dandy’s long shot victory over Gallant Fox in the 1930 Travers. Thus, two terms entered into the lexicon—not to be confused with Lexington— of horse racing lore because of Gallant Fox, Triple Crown and the aforementioned Graveyard of Champions. Gallant Fox is also the only TC winner to sire another as his son Omaha swept the series in 1935.

5) If a farm exists that can correct paddling, I’m going to hit up Jayson Werth to get a loan and buy stock. That would be far more lucrative than buying horses.

Just one add.....Lifetime baseballer Joe Torre, now representing the Commissioner's Office...... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zx7DuwJb3eM?app=desktop

[MySaladDays]

Meanwhile while all the talk is about stallions, all hail PUCA.

Including her first foal, Gunning (Gun Runner), Puca has three stakes performers from the same number of starters. Mage and Dornoch.

That's pretty amazing. She has an unraced one now that I am watching.

[MySaladDays]

If a farm exists that can correct paddling, I’m going to hit up Jayson Werth to get a loan and buy stock. That would be far more lucrative than buying horses.

Lets make a list of horses who were head cases, had crooked legs, and downright terrible conformations, who became notable champions. Both here and abroad.

Then let's compare how they were brought along......patiently. Not with quick last minute fixes and thrown into a race.

I think it was Jack van Berg who did wake up in his older years, "if you don't give them the time, they will MAKE YOU take the time."

[Missbeholder]

I've seen virtually zero chatter about White Abarrio's "no-show" in yesterday's Met Mile. Does anybody here have any thoughts to share on that?

It's turning out to be one of the strangest careers so far that I recall in a while. He finishes 3rd in a stakes at Churchill Downs as a 2yo, then wins the GIII Holy Bull and the GI Florida Derby as the second choice on the board, all under trainer Saffie Joseph. Then Joseph is slapped with a "provisional" medication suspension by HISA/HIWU which causes White Abarrio to be taken away from him and given to Rick Dutrow, who happens to be early on the come-back trail off of a 10-year ban from the sport. Joseph's "provisional" suspension is then cleared after HISA/HIWU review which found no chargeable violation, but the damage is done.

Later that summer and fall, under his new trainer, the horse runs two hugely impressive GI races in the Whitney at Saratoga and the Breeders Cup Classic at Santa Anita. Then he remains at Santa Anita for about 3 months, openly using the historic racetrack as a training center to prepare for a run in the Saudi Cup in late February. He goes to Saudi Arabia with world-beater hype, particularly from his trainer, and proceeds to lay a huge egg in the race, finishing far up the track with no apparent excuse or reason.

He's then off until re-appearing in the Met Mile run this year at Saratoga and flops again as the slight favorite in the race, failing to hit the board.

I don't know what to think about this horse. This career path is just kind of bizarre. Anybody here have any thoughts or comments on who he is and where he might go from here. He doesn't have a very fashionable immediate pedigree, though his two grandsires are Tapit and Into Mischief. I'm just not sure, given his two major racing debacles most recently, that major farms are going to be knocking the door down to get to him.

Curiouser and curiouser!

[Squeaky]

Meanwhile while all the talk is about stallions, all hail PUCA.

Including her first foal, Gunning (Gun Runner), Puca has three stakes performers from the same number of starters. Mage and Dornoch.

That's pretty amazing. She has an unraced one now that I am watching.

John Stewart bought her for close to 3 million last year and now owns both her and her Good Magic colt. Plan was to send her to Frankel but first wants a full sister filly foal so sent her back to Good Magic again this year.

[Curtis]

If a farm exists that can correct paddling, I’m going to hit up Jayson Werth to get a loan and buy stock. That would be far more lucrative than buying horses.

Lets make a list of horses who were head cases, had crooked legs, and downright terrible conformations, who became notable champions. Both here and abroad.

Then let's compare how they were brought along......patiently. Not with quick last minute fixes and thrown into a race.

I think it was Jack van Berg who did wake up in his older years, "if you don't give them the time, they will MAKE YOU take the time."

You can make the list. Economics are different now. No one that I know of is going to pay 2.8M for a horse hoping he’ll make a good 5yo. Vekoma, from the same line without Gun Runner as the middle man, was a horrible mess. He got plenty of time off between 3 and 4 and he was still a mess. The body maturing would help, I agree, but I’m talking about the now. When Sierra Leone was purchased, the idea was win a Classic or some other notable G1 and then get a stallion deal. We can lament all we want but if an expensive horse doesn’t prove out by the middle of their 3yo season they’re culled and then it’s on to the next.

JVB’s daddy Marion may have said something similar but the “Wait on them or they’ll make you wait” quote was widely attributed to Charlie Whittingham. Charlie also mused about the resemblance of horses to strawberries. It’s an inexact science.

[Squeaky]

Delete

[Squeaky]

I've seen virtually zero chatter about White Abarrio's "no-show" in yesterday's Met Mile. Does anybody here have any thoughts to share on that?

It's turning out to be one of the strangest careers so far that I recall in a while. He finishes 3rd in a stakes at Churchill Downs as a 2yo, then wins the GIII Holy Bull and the GI Florida Derby as the second choice on the board, all under trainer Saffie Joseph. Then Joseph is slapped with a "provisional" medication suspension by HISA/HIWU which causes White Abarrio to be taken away from him and given to Rick Dutrow, who happens to be early on the come-back trail off of a 10-year ban from the sport. Joseph's "provisional" suspension is then cleared after HISA/HIWU review which found no chargeable violation, but the damage is done.

Later that summer and fall, under his new trainer, the horse runs two hugely impressive GI races in the Whitney at Saratoga and the Breeders Cup Classic at Santa Anita. Then he remains at Santa Anita for about 3 months, openly using the historic racetrack as a training center to prepare for a run in the Saudi Cup in late February. He goes to Saudi Arabia with world-beater hype, particularly from his trainer, and proceeds to lay a huge egg in the race, finishing far up the track with no apparent excuse or reason.

He's then off until re-appearing in the Met Mile run this year at Saratoga and flops again as the slight favorite in the race, failing to hit the board.

I don't know what to think about this horse. This career path is just kind of bizarre. Anybody here have any thoughts or comments on who he is and where he might go from here. He doesn't have a very fashionable immediate pedigree, though his two grandsires are Tapit and Into Mischief. I'm just not sure, given his two major racing debacles most recently, that major farms are going to be knocking the door down to get to him.

Curiouser and curiouser!

Agree very strange. Possibilities include sore feet ( which Dutrow said he fixed with glue on shoes), undiagnosed other physical maladies ( ulcers, bone bruising, soft tissue injury), or just mentally during want to do it anymore? Or maybe he would do better with races less widely spaced? Although Babe said last fall he thought he’d do better with long breaks between races? Maybe some farm time out of the stall would help get him back to form? It’s a wonder what fresh air and sunshine and green grass can do over a few months.

[Tessablue]

This might sound a bit odd, but I think White Abarrio's career makes sense if you assume that he just isn't very good. He was never a top-tier horse until the Whitney, and sure he ran huge there, but it's not uncommon for a mediocre horse to put up a big effort if they meet the ideal circumstances for it. And I know he won the Classic, but to the eye and in retrospect that race looked very weak.

Assume the horse had one big race in him and got fairly lucky in a bad Classic, and his career isn't all that difficult to make sense of.

RE: Sierra Leone, he doesn't have the turn of foot or stride of a turf horse. He's just a very classy, very talented dirt router who, because of his runstyle and mechanical flaws, will win his races more based on circumstance than ability.

[Eohippus]

Maybe SL needs a trainer change in addition to a jockey change. CB can obviously train a a good horse, but maybe SL just needs someone different.

Or maybe he's a turf horse?

Coolmore’s got plenty of turf stallions. They want to make SL their next big dirt sire.

But they have super sire Justify, who is a good dirt sire. I don’t think they need to worry

[Izvestia]

This might sound a bit odd, but I think White Abarrio's career makes sense if you assume that he just isn't very good. He was never a top-tier horse until the Whitney, and sure he ran huge there, but it's not uncommon for a mediocre horse to put up a big effort if they meet the ideal circumstances for it. And I know he won the Classic, but to the eye and in retrospect that race looked very weak.

Assume the horse had one big race in him and got fairly lucky in a bad Classic, and his career isn't all that difficult to make sense of.

RE: Sierra Leone, he doesn't have the turn of foot or stride of a turf horse. He's just a very classy, very talented dirt router who, because of his runstyle and mechanical flaws, will win his races more based on circumstance than ability.

The Classic was one of (if not) the weakest.