2024 Fees

[Mylute]

Why is American Pharoah being considered a flop? He finished in the top 10 (#6) on the NA sire list with 11 SWs and 6 GSWs. His yearling average was $208,498. Has he sired a superstar yet? No. But he has sired some nice runners. AP's never had an insanely hot run like Justify has had over the last few months, but I would argue he's not a failure.

Failing to immediately establish a sire line via 5 sons that retire to stud at three after single G1Ws is what determines if a stallion is successful or not in 2024.

Snark aside, I don't think you can compare the two TC because Justify recieved better mare support from Coolmore and others because Scat Daddy.

[Danniwolfe]

I'm not saying he's a failure it's just quite the fall of stud fee he has had

[Eohippus]

Sorry guys I have been a bit of a negative mood as of late so have been seeing the things half empty. American Pharoah has my heart and I worry about him as I am not at all a fan of Coolmore’s stallion management.

I honestly think he’s doing fine as a sire but isn’t commercial as it seems to industry has a “breed to sell, sell to breed” mindset as of late and Pharoah isn’t the shinest new stallion anymore. I think the Japanese seem to like him at least.

[Retrospectiv]

I really don't think AP is doing that bad, I always kind of thought he may end up more like an Affirmed type sire - solid, multi surface but not a superstar maker. So far, that's held true.
It was very unfortunate for him that Justufy came along so quickly after, and he then received the bulk of the very best Coolmare mares. Hard to compete with a $60 million dollar colt who comes from several generations of Coolmore sirelines sadly.

[Mylute]

Finding a champion without Secretariat in the pedigree somewhere isn't the norm, but you will often see people describe him as a "disappointing stallion." Why? No male sireline.

[Northport]

I mean, Ghostzapper came in hot with the huge stud fee like AP, didn't set the world on fire right off the bat and took a few seasons to get going before levelling off as a consistently very good sire who is a cut below six figures.

[Flanders]

Sorry guys I have been a bit of a negative mood as of late so have been seeing the things half empty. American Pharoah has my heart and I worry about him as I am not at all a fan of Coolmore’s stallion management.

I honestly think he’s doing fine as a sire but isn’t commercial as it seems to industry has a “breed to sell, sell to breed” mindset as of late and Pharoah isn’t the shinest new stallion anymore. I think the Japanese seem to like him at least.

He is doing fine and is a solid sire, he just isn't that 100k+ tier. His sales numbers are still good and he is very much commercial, with his 2023 yearlings averaging $208,498. A 50k stud fee is still an expensive stud fee. He finished 2023 6th on the General Sires List without any superstar runners and he has shown he can get G1 winners on the dirt and turf, in North America, France, Japan and Australia. He has a solid 5% SWs from his Northern Hemisphere crops (I subtracted the newly turned 2yos). This recent TDN article says, he is a great value for what you get and his stud fee places him in a spot where new breeders can use him. It also says his numbers are better than Munnings who stands for more than him. https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/v ... -snowline/

[stelladaniella]

Cloud Computing - $3,500

[stelladaniella]

Early Voting - $20,000

[Falinadin]

I agree with everyone else, American Pharoah wouldn't be considered a flop. Real flops leave Kentucky within 3-4 years or are pensioned.
I don't really think that Justify is what hurt AP though, it was how lackluster his first crop or two performed considering the quality of mares he got. He has a pretty bad AEI/CI (1.43:2.34). Meaning that while his foals earned 1.43X the national average, his mares typically produced foals who earned 2.43X the average. A 2.34 is better than Tapit, Curlin, Medaglia d'Oro, so he's gotten some really good mares and just wasn't able to maintain or improve on them.

[tachyon]

I would confirm that Poetic Flare had fertility issues in his debut year at stud for the 2022/2023 season.
I've just looked into his covering records in 2022 and his mares' producing records in 2023.
He covered 108 mares in 2022.
His ''live foal rate'' (live foals / number of mares covered) was less than 40%.

aw damn it... i had checked Jbis but it still didn't have the number of foals. is that from the studbook?

Yes. It's from Japanese Studbook (Japanese version).

JBIS has updated the number of registered foals for 2022/2023.
https://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001346307/sire/generation/

[Akitaperson]

I agree with everyone else, American Pharoah wouldn't be considered a flop. Real flops leave Kentucky within 3-4 years or are pensioned.
I don't really think that Justify is what hurt AP though, it was how lackluster his first crop or two performed considering the quality of mares he got. He has a pretty bad AEI/CI (1.43:2.34). Meaning that while his foals earned 1.43X the national average, his mares typically produced foals who earned 2.43X the average. A 2.34 is better than Tapit, Curlin, Medaglia d'Oro, so he's gotten some really good mares and just wasn't able to maintain or improve on them.

Him having so many turf foals doesn't help him much when it comes to American racing

[brunanas]

Endorsed — $5,000

MGSW Endorsed, Half To Cody's Wish, Enters Stud At Northview Stallion Station
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/m ... n-station/

[stelladaniella]

Somelikeithotbrown (Big Brown) - $3,500

[brunanas]

Somelikeithotbrown (Big Brown) - $3,500

where will he stand?

[stelladaniella]

Somelikeithotbrown (Big Brown) - $3,500

where will he stand?

Cabin Creek in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania!

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... creek-farm

[Northport]

Finnegan's Wake is standing for free for the rest of the year and perhaps beyond. He is at Hunter Stallion Station in Wilton, California. Didn't realize he is a half brother to Puca.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/n ... 8NDPyUgouy
.

[Danniwolfe]

Finnegan's Wake is standing for free for the rest of the year and perhaps beyond. He is at Hunter Stallion Station in Wilton, California. Didn't realize he is a half brother to Puca.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/n ... 8NDPyUgouy
.

Wild

[Diver52]

Finnegan's Wake is standing for free for the rest of the year and perhaps beyond. He is at Hunter Stallion Station in Wilton, California. Didn't realize he is a half brother to Puca.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/n ... 8NDPyUgouy
.

I think it's free only if you can prove you have read the book.

[RugbyGirl]

Rich Hill Stud in New Zealand have announced fees for the 2024 Southern Hemisphere season: (fees in NZ$)

Stallion, (sire), 2024 fee, (2023 fee)

Proisir (Choisir) $80,000 ($70,000)
Satono Aladdin (Deep Impact) $65,000 ($45,000)
Ace High (High Chaparral) $15,000 ($10,000)
Shocking (Street Cry) $12,500 ($12,500)
Vadamos (Monsun) $9000 ($12,500)

https://www.racingnews.co.nz/rich-hill- ... lion-fees/