Saratoga Sale (2023)

[Justahorse]

Stock thoroughbreds bought the uncle mo canteen for olly. Never heard of them.

[Northport]

Wow, $4 mil. Club foot, wonky knees and all. Good luck.

And someone showed me a close up of one of his hooves where he had a pretty big quarter crack

This really makes me wonder if these trainers/ agents take advantage of these rich owners who really don’t know much about horses/ conformation.

That’s how every horse industry works. Hunters/jumpers/racing, etc. Not sure what the standard commission is in racing, but in hunters/jumpers it can be anywhere from 10-30% of the sale price. Sometimes added onto the sale price. Top olympians have been caught in the last 5 years adding seven figure sums to the price of the horse without telling the client.

Seller wants $2,000,000 for the horse, trainer or agent wants a $1,000,000 commission, so he tells the client the horse is for sale for $3,000,000.

Something something fools and their money.

[Flanders]

If the horse was really bad, he wouldn't have sold for that much. They stand to make more money from buying good horses than just getting the guy to spend money on no hopes. Which is what you guys are making the horse out to be. No one said he looked bad before the sale, there were videos and pictures and no one said anything about him. Zedan buys him and suddenly he is a train wreck?

[mariasmon]

If the horse was really bad, he wouldn't have sold for that much. They stand to make more money from buying good horses than just getting the guy to spend money on no hopes. Which is what you guys are making the horse out to be. No one said he looked bad before the sale, there were videos and pictures and no one said anything about him. Zedan buys him and suddenly he is a train wreck?

He has some issues that would've knocked him off many shortlists if he had a lesser pedigree. But he does have the pedigree and a big walk, so they're willing to overlook his flaws. Like I mentioned yesterday, Baffert did pretty well with another clubfooted colt who earned championships and even sired a BC Classic champ.

[KatieK101]

If the horse was really bad, he wouldn't have sold for that much. They stand to make more money from buying good horses than just getting the guy to spend money on no hopes. Which is what you guys are making the horse out to be. No one said he looked bad before the sale, there were videos and pictures and no one said anything about him. Zedan buys him and suddenly he is a train wreck?

Thankful somebody said it. I’m no fan of Baffert or Zendan but nobody had a negative thing to say about the colt before the buyer was announced.

[Essential Quality]

If the horse was really bad, he wouldn't have sold for that much. They stand to make more money from buying good horses than just getting the guy to spend money on no hopes. Which is what you guys are making the horse out to be. No one said he looked bad before the sale, there were videos and pictures and no one said anything about him. Zedan buys him and suddenly he is a train wreck?

Thankful somebody said it. I’m no fan of Baffert or Zendan but nobody had a negative thing to say about the colt before the buyer was announced.

Actually a lot of people on twitter were saying a lot of stuff about him before. It's also not hard to see he has less then desirable front legs. His comformation is far from the best in the sale, he went that much purely on pedigree.

[Flanders]

All horses are going to have flaws. Pedigree isn't a free ride to a big auction price. We saw that with Leslie's Lady's MDO colt, he RNA'd at 60k. This was after Mendelssohn sold for 3m and before America's Joy went for 8.2m. Whatever Beholder's colts flaws are, they weren't enough to deter a huge price. Yes his pedigree obviously pushed the price that high but if he had really bad flaws, he wouldn't have brought that much.

[Justahorse]

All horses are going to have flaws. Pedigree isn't a free ride to a big auction price. We saw that with Leslie's Lady's MDO colt, he RNA'd at 60k. This was after Mendelssohn sold for 3m and before America's Joy went for 8.2m. Whatever Beholder's colts flaws are, they weren't enough to deter a huge price. Yes his pedigree obviously pushed the price that high but if he had really bad flaws, he wouldn't have brought that much.

Whatever happened to her mdo colt? Did he ever make it to the track?

[brunanas]

All horses are going to have flaws. Pedigree isn't a free ride to a big auction price. We saw that with Leslie's Lady's MDO colt, he RNA'd at 60k. This was after Mendelssohn sold for 3m and before America's Joy went for 8.2m. Whatever Beholder's colts flaws are, they weren't enough to deter a huge price. Yes his pedigree obviously pushed the price that high but if he had really bad flaws, he wouldn't have brought that much.

Whatever happened to her mdo colt? Did he ever make it to the track?

he wasn't ever even named, so no

[Flanders]

No clue what happened to him. There really wasn't anything afterward, I looked a lot. Its hard to try and find anything about an unnamed horse.

[mariasmon]

But we don't really know exactly what was "wrong" with the Leslie's Lady colt. Anybody here look at his scope or rads? Some flaws, buyers can live with. Others, most buyers are going to avoid.

[Flanders]

But we don't really know exactly what was "wrong" with the Leslie's Lady colt. Anybody here look at his scope or rads? Some flaws, buyers can live with. Others, most buyers are going to avoid.

Yes that is exactly what I've been trying to say. Some flaws buyers will look past but even a pedigree wont be enough to overlook others.

[KatieK101]

If the horse was really bad, he wouldn't have sold for that much. They stand to make more money from buying good horses than just getting the guy to spend money on no hopes. Which is what you guys are making the horse out to be. No one said he looked bad before the sale, there were videos and pictures and no one said anything about him. Zedan buys him and suddenly he is a train wreck?

Thankful somebody said it. I’m no fan of Baffert or Zendan but nobody had a negative thing to say about the colt before the buyer was announced.

Actually a lot of people on twitter were saying a lot of stuff about him before. It's also not hard to see he has less then desirable front legs. His comformation is far from the best in the sale, he went that much purely on pedigree.

Must not be on your side of Twitter, then. All I saw was excitement and guesses on how much he would sell for.

My point is, if he had sold to someone like Mandy Pope and gone into training with someone like Bill Mott, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

[mariasmon]

Thankful somebody said it. I’m no fan of Baffert or Zendan but nobody had a negative thing to say about the colt before the buyer was announced.

Actually a lot of people on twitter were saying a lot of stuff about him before. It's also not hard to see he has less then desirable front legs. His comformation is far from the best in the sale, he went that much purely on pedigree.

Must not be on your side of Twitter, then. All I saw was excitement and guesses on how much he would sell for.

My point is, if he had sold to someone like Mandy Pope and gone into training with someone like Bill Mott, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

I actually would've, because I thought he had obvious issues prior to sale night and was truly surprised he brought that much, regardless of pedigree.

[Diver52]

I'm not a conformation expert and I did see some things I thought doubtful--but the mention of a "big walk" reminds me that one of the first evaluation tools I ever saw was the hind hoof moving over the front hoofprint. In other words, a lot of flexibility from the rear. It's surprising how few horses have that, from seeing horses at Santa Anita and Del Mar walk to the paddock, and, in Santa Anita's case, make multiple turns around the saddling barn. The Curlin colt was overstriding big time.

[mariasmon]

I'm not a conformation expert and I did see some things I thought doubtful--but the mention of a "big walk" reminds me that one of the first evaluation tools I ever saw was the hind hoof moving over the front hoofprint. In other words, a lot of flexibility from the rear. It's surprising how few horses have that, from seeing horses at Santa Anita and Del Mar walk to the paddock, and, in Santa Anita's case, make multiple turns around the saddling barn. The Curlin colt was overstriding big time.

The walk might be one of the main reasons they were overlooking other physical issues he might have. When you're inspecting horses for purchase, you want to see them walking, not just standing there. If he moves like that even with wonky knees and a club foot, then hopefully they will not hinder him on the track. Then there's Vekoma, who just defies all conventional wisdom