Stallion News

[sweettalk]

reported in the breeding forum that Jess' Dream (curlin x rachel alexandra) is officially pensioned

[Squeaky]

reported in the breeding forum that Jess' Dream (curlin x rachel alexandra) is officially pensioned

How old is he?

[Flanders]

reported in the breeding forum that Jess' Dream (curlin x rachel alexandra) is officially pensioned

How old is he?

11

[TapitsGal]

Max Player has retired

[Mylute]

European Champion Juvenile Native Trail (Oasis Dream - Needleleaf, by Observatory) has been retired to stud.
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/g ... l-retired/

He won the G1 Dewhurst and G1 National S. at two and then the G1 Irish 2,000 Guineas at three.

[Slewfan2]

Max Player has retired

Finally...I don’t know if he they retired him because he’s been awful since the 2021 BC or if he injured himself, but it’s about time. I know he’s won 2 G1 races, but I can’t see anyone wanting to breed to him...Honor Code is a poor sire - his best son, the very good Honor AP, has not been well received at Lane’s End - that’s hard to accomplish. I’d much rather have had him gelded and sent to Old Friends

[SukiSatsuki]

Max Player has retired

Finally...I don’t know if he they retired him because he’s been awful since the 2021 BC or if he injured himself, but it’s about time. I know he’s won 2 G1 races, but I can’t see anyone wanting to breed to him...Honor Code is a poor sire - his best son, the very good Honor AP, has not been well received at Lane’s End - that’s hard to accomplish. I’d much rather have had him gelded and sent to Old Friends

Or retrained

[Slewfan2]

Max Player has retired

Finally...I don’t know if he they retired him because he’s been awful since the 2021 BC or if he injured himself, but it’s about time. I know he’s won 2 G1 races, but I can’t see anyone wanting to breed to him...Honor Code is a poor sire - his best son, the very good Honor AP, has not been well received at Lane’s End - that’s hard to accomplish. I’d much rather have had him gelded and sent to Old Friends

Or retrained

I doubt that would work for him - he’s an incredibly quirky horse…

[Squeaky]

Delete

[Mylute]

Gelding Max Player? Oh boy here we go again.

Here's a thought: no horse should go to stud ever.

[BaroqueAgain1]

Gelding all the TB males is what PETA wants....let the breed just die out so that none of the horses can ever be abused again.

[brunanas]

Gelding all the TB males is what PETA wants....let the breed just die out so that none of the horses can ever be abused again.

Patrick Battuello is also a firm supporter of that, though he extends that idea to domestic animals... we just can't stop breeding cows because that would mean he wouldn't be able to sell his meat pizzas.

[Slewfan2]

Gelding Max Player? Oh boy here we go again.

Here's a thought: no horse should go to stud ever.

It’s not necessary to be sarcastic, though I guess that’s what you resort to when you can’t make a cogent argument. I can’t tell you how often I’ve read here that there are TOO many horses standing at stud, that there are too many siring offspring just because they are by top sires. If you disagree about Max, then make your point...if you can. And yes, I know he’s a G1 winner...I’m guessing you can’t make an argument for why he should stand at stud without resorting to that fact. His owners have to drum up interest in him, lol

[Slewfan2]

Gelding all the TB males is what PETA wants....let the breed just die out so that none of the horses can ever be abused again.

JFC I didn’t say that, I didn’t even imply that.
Apparently some here don’t know how to disagree without being rude. I have to assume you can not make a reasoned argument for why Max should stand at stud.

Good luck to Max, he’ll need it. I loved and rooted for him before anyone on this board, most likely, but I’m realistic. His sire is ...not good. Honor Code is ice cold, with zero market. He bred 29 mares 2 years ago, 44 last year. Honor AP, despite standing at LE, has not had large books...nor especially impressive ones. His first weanlings sold poorly. Much of this is due to his sire.

Max was a solid horse for most of his career, until he just decided that he didn’t want to run anymore. He was generally a plodder, and like most Honor Codes, had no speed. Exactly what is appealing to him from any POV? Even a regional one ...where speed IS usually demanded.

[SukiSatsuki]

Gelding Max Player? Oh boy here we go again.

Here's a thought: no horse should go to stud ever.

Horse has no need to be at stud lol

[Honor Code]

Yes, @Mylute. I guess we do have to do this again. Thankfully @Falinadin and @KatieK101 did a lovely write up last year that I’m just going to quote and call it a day.

There's far worse horses at stud than him. Regional markets are full of horses that are just G3/minor stakes winners, some even unraced but with a nice pedigree. Max Player is decent looking, has raced from 2-5 and stayed somewhat sound. I also like that he's out of a Not for Love mare. I think he should be given opportunity to stand at stud. Maybe not in central Kentucky, but in a regional market at least.
As far as not being fast goes, he's no Dash for Cash but he won the G1 JCGC. Considering that something like 0.2% of thoroughbreds will ever win a grade 1 race... I'd say he's faster than most. And before that gets called a fluke or contrasted with "yeah but he's not fast now", most racehorses are slower when they retire than when they're at their peak. Tapit retired after 2 ninth place finishes after his sole G1 win. War Front's last race was a 7th place finish (he isn't a G1 winner actually), Uncle Mo's last race was a 12th in the BC after a 3 year old season that only had a G2 win (he was a G1 winner at 2).
Long story short, just because he won the JCGC at 3 and isn't doing well this year doesn't somehow completely invalidate him as a stallion?

I think that there are very valid arguments to be had about being more selective about the stallions standing stud. But I don't think a grade 1 winner with a 3-4 year career is the one to argue here. Go after the horses who are barely stakes winners.
Heck, in my neck of the woods (California) we have stellar examples like Heaven's Glory. Completely unraced. Despite the fact that he's by Tapit and out of Peeping Fawn, he RNA'd for $90k as a yearling because of how much of a mess he was. Other completely unraced stallions include Box Score (full to Temple City), Treasure Ride (full to Twirling Candy) and Gem Heist (out of Careless Jewel).
Or how about Phantom Wildcat, with a 10-1-0-2 record and literally never setting foot in a black type race. None of his siblings are stakes winners. He has 47 foals on the ground.
Or Unionize. 20-5-6-2 and also never ran in a single stakes or black type race. Has 39 foals on the ground.

YOU might not breed to Max Player, but he's a better prospect than a lot of these regional horses

But after taking a look at a pedigree page (Frank's Folly in 2018), I actually think Max Player has a nice female family. He's a half-brother to GSW Seahenge and GSP Urban Bourban, and Frank's Folly herself is a black-type placed winner (and it's also worth noting at she ended up selling for $460k as a broodmare prospect. Again, this is before Max Player even made his debut in 2019). His dam, Fools in Love, is a half-sister to MGSW International Star and a full-sister to SW D C Dancer.

Max Player’s Keeneland November sales page:http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/Sep18/pdfs/929.pdf

Max Player won Jockey Club Gold Cup and Suburban with a nice placing in the Belmont and Travers. His stud qualifications are a darn sight better than some of the other horses going to stud lately.

[MissNMecke]

I would rather see a horse like Max Player get a chance as a stallion than the next ten 3-start Into Mischief's that can go really fast for about a half mile. Rate we're going, they ARE going to redo the triple crown. Derby will be at 7f, Preakness at 6, and the Test of the Champion will be the marathon mile of the Belmont.

[Slewfan2]

Yes, @Mylute. I guess we do have to do this again. Thankfully @Falinadin and @KatieK101 did a lovely write up last year that I’m just going to quote and call it a day.

There's far worse horses at stud than him. Regional markets are full of horses that are just G3/minor stakes winners, some even unraced but with a nice pedigree. Max Player is decent looking, has raced from 2-5 and stayed somewhat sound. I also like that he's out of a Not for Love mare. I think he should be given opportunity to stand at stud. Maybe not in central Kentucky, but in a regional market at least.
As far as not being fast goes, he's no Dash for Cash but he won the G1 JCGC. Considering that something like 0.2% of thoroughbreds will ever win a grade 1 race... I'd say he's faster than most. And before that gets called a fluke or contrasted with "yeah but he's not fast now", most racehorses are slower when they retire than when they're at their peak. Tapit retired after 2 ninth place finishes after his sole G1 win. War Front's last race was a 7th place finish (he isn't a G1 winner actually), Uncle Mo's last race was a 12th in the BC after a 3 year old season that only had a G2 win (he was a G1 winner at 2).
Long story short, just because he won the JCGC at 3 and isn't doing well this year doesn't somehow completely invalidate him as a stallion?

I think that there are very valid arguments to be had about being more selective about the stallions standing stud. But I don't think a grade 1 winner with a 3-4 year career is the one to argue here. Go after the horses who are barely stakes winners.
Heck, in my neck of the woods (California) we have stellar examples like Heaven's Glory. Completely unraced. Despite the fact that he's by Tapit and out of Peeping Fawn, he RNA'd for $90k as a yearling because of how much of a mess he was. Other completely unraced stallions include Box Score (full to Temple City), Treasure Ride (full to Twirling Candy) and Gem Heist (out of Careless Jewel).
Or how about Phantom Wildcat, with a 10-1-0-2 record and literally never setting foot in a black type race. None of his siblings are stakes winners. He has 47 foals on the ground.
Or Unionize. 20-5-6-2 and also never ran in a single stakes or black type race. Has 39 foals on the ground.

YOU might not breed to Max Player, but he's a better prospect than a lot of these regional horses

But after taking a look at a pedigree page (Frank's Folly in 2018), I actually think Max Player has a nice female family. He's a half-brother to GSW Seahenge and GSP Urban Bourban, and Frank's Folly herself is a black-type placed winner (and it's also worth noting at she ended up selling for $460k as a broodmare prospect. Again, this is before Max Player even made his debut in 2019). His dam, Fools in Love, is a half-sister to MGSW International Star and a full-sister to SW D C Dancer.

Max Player’s Keeneland November sales page:http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/Sep18/pdfs/929.pdf

Max Player won Jockey Club Gold Cup and Suburban with a nice placing in the Belmont and Travers. His stud qualifications are a darn sight better than some of the other horses going to stud lately.

I remember reading this…and there are some good points

Ultimately it’s no skin off my back - if his owners can find some regional stud to stand him, more power to them…..I don’t think he’ll be successful, but you never know

[Slewfan2]

Yes, @Mylute. I guess we do have to do this again. Thankfully @Falinadin and @KatieK101 did a lovely write up last year that I’m just going to quote and call it a day.

There's far worse horses at stud than him. Regional markets are full of horses that are just G3/minor stakes winners, some even unraced but with a nice pedigree. Max Player is decent looking, has raced from 2-5 and stayed somewhat sound. I also like that he's out of a Not for Love mare. I think he should be given opportunity to stand at stud. Maybe not in central Kentucky, but in a regional market at least.
As far as not being fast goes, he's no Dash for Cash but he won the G1 JCGC. Considering that something like 0.2% of thoroughbreds will ever win a grade 1 race... I'd say he's faster than most. And before that gets called a fluke or contrasted with "yeah but he's not fast now", most racehorses are slower when they retire than when they're at their peak. Tapit retired after 2 ninth place finishes after his sole G1 win. War Front's last race was a 7th place finish (he isn't a G1 winner actually), Uncle Mo's last race was a 12th in the BC after a 3 year old season that only had a G2 win (he was a G1 winner at 2).
Long story short, just because he won the JCGC at 3 and isn't doing well this year doesn't somehow completely invalidate him as a stallion?

I think that there are very valid arguments to be had about being more selective about the stallions standing stud. But I don't think a grade 1 winner with a 3-4 year career is the one to argue here. Go after the horses who are barely stakes winners.
Heck, in my neck of the woods (California) we have stellar examples like Heaven's Glory. Completely unraced. Despite the fact that he's by Tapit and out of Peeping Fawn, he RNA'd for $90k as a yearling because of how much of a mess he was. Other completely unraced stallions include Box Score (full to Temple City), Treasure Ride (full to Twirling Candy) and Gem Heist (out of Careless Jewel).
Or how about Phantom Wildcat, with a 10-1-0-2 record and literally never setting foot in a black type race. None of his siblings are stakes winners. He has 47 foals on the ground.
Or Unionize. 20-5-6-2 and also never ran in a single stakes or black type race. Has 39 foals on the ground.

YOU might not breed to Max Player, but he's a better prospect than a lot of these regional horses

But after taking a look at a pedigree page (Frank's Folly in 2018), I actually think Max Player has a nice female family. He's a half-brother to GSW Seahenge and GSP Urban Bourban, and Frank's Folly herself is a black-type placed winner (and it's also worth noting at she ended up selling for $460k as a broodmare prospect. Again, this is before Max Player even made his debut in 2019). His dam, Fools in Love, is a half-sister to MGSW International Star and a full-sister to SW D C Dancer.

Max Player’s Keeneland November sales page:http://apps.keeneland.com/sales/Sep18/pdfs/929.pdf

Max Player won Jockey Club Gold Cup and Suburban with a nice placing in the Belmont and Travers. His stud qualifications are a darn sight better than some of the other horses going to stud lately.

Delete

[Mylute]

Write up on Ice Box (Pulpit - Spice Island) who has moved to Pennsylvania recently.
https://paulickreport.com/news/bloodsto ... n-indiana/