Breeders’ Cup 2022

[Happy Endings]

Forego I'll grant you, but the others never surface in these conversations. But one could make an argument that Alydar and Affirmed were better tested.

Horses can only beat the horses that line up against them. That's why stakes records and a robust resume are so important.
Secretariat's records in the TC still stand. Much was made of Flightline's numbers in the Pacific Classic, like he was some sort of otherworldly monster. If he really was that good, why don't the raw times reflect it? Never once in 6 races? But even if one goes by those numbers, he wasn't as fast as Ghostzapper. Nor was his Beyer number on a par with what has been estimated Secretariat would have gotten in the TC if Beyer numbers had existed at the time. How does one explain that away? Ghostzapper is recognized as brilliant, but not as on a par with Secretariat or others. He also had a very light racing schedule like Flightline did. Brilliance and durability sometimes don't go together. I guarantee you that in the future that, if Flightline is mentioned at all, it will be similarly as Ghostzapper is and a long way from GOAT.

I wasn't following racing through the Ghostzapper era, but the raw time point might be valid had we ever witnessed Flightline sent belly down to the wire. But he coasted to the wire with the foot off the gas, and nearly took down the track record at Del Mar. He was geared down again yesterday.

I get the sense that Prat's directive was to bring the horse home sound and safe, even if it cost them the internet.

If you get the sense, that is just guessing and certainly not proof of anything. The truly great ones don't necessarily need to be pushed. Secretariat didn't need any pushing in the Belmont. Did that all on his own. Flightline is far better than any of his competitors, of course, but he lacks the accomplishments of greatness that so many others have exhibited in the past. His wins were visually impressive, but that is about it. He won 6 races. That is not a resume for the ages. There are so many horses that accomplished so much more. It's too bad he is retired. Another year of racing may have cemented his legacy. I would liken him to Ghostzapper, as I said previously, but not to the likes of Cigar, Secretariat, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, Kelso, John Henry, and many others.

[Katewerk]

I get the sense that Prat's directive was to bring the horse home sound and safe, even if it cost them the internet.

If you get the sense, that is just guessing and certainly not proof of anything. The truly great ones don't necessarily need to be pushed.

I'm not trying to "prove" anything, it's just a discussion. There's zero evidence that Prat had the green light to ask Flightline for more than what was required to win, just to put on a show and prove to the world what that puppy could do. That was my only point. The risk/benefit ratio is upside down, it would have been criticized as irresponsible. And good horsemen don't need a clock to tell them what they're witnessing.

[Happy Endings]

I get the sense that Prat's directive was to bring the horse home sound and safe, even if it cost them the internet.

If you get the sense, that is just guessing and certainly not proof of anything. The truly great ones don't necessarily need to be pushed.

I'm not trying to "prove" anything, it's just a discussion. There's zero evidence that Prat had the green light to ask Flightline for more than what was required to win, just to put on a show and prove to the world what that puppy could do. That was my only point. The risk/benefit ratio is upside down, it would have been criticized as irresponsible. And good horsemen don't need a clock to tell them what they're witnessing.

Secretariat didn't need to be asked in the Belmont. No horse has come within 2 seconds of his record in that race. As far as Flightline, there is zero evidence of much of anything, other than he was significantly better than his competition, and about as fast as Ghostzapper, if one lives by speed numbers. Anything else is hyperbole. The horse ran 6 times. Not enough to make much of a judgment one way or another as far as what was being "witnessed", because people often see what they want to see, or what might be financially expedient for them to see. Some people have tried to crown him the next coming, and saying, as some have, that he is better than Secretariat, has a chilling effect on those not already drinking the kool-aid. I have seen long threads on social media of long-time racing fans and horsemen who saw Secretariat, Slew, the Bid, Cigar, Kelso, etc., scoffing at the idea. Retiring him has put an end to the possibilities for the horse to develop a longer resume and achieve whatever greatness he could. That is a shame. Fifty years from now, when people look back, they may not even remember his name as more than a footnote, if that, whereas a longer resume with similar successes could have made a difference. It's achievements that really matter. I can't imagine there are many horses in the hall of fame who only ran 6 times.

[Miss Woodford]

If you get the sense, that is just guessing and certainly not proof of anything. The truly great ones don't necessarily need to be pushed.

I'm not trying to "prove" anything, it's just a discussion. There's zero evidence that Prat had the green light to ask Flightline for more than what was required to win, just to put on a show and prove to the world what that puppy could do. That was my only point. The risk/benefit ratio is upside down, it would have been criticized as irresponsible. And good horsemen don't need a clock to tell them what they're witnessing.

Secretariat didn't need to be asked in the Belmont. No horse has come within 2 seconds of his record in that race. As far as Flightline, there is zero evidence of much of anything, other than he was significantly better than his competition, and about as fast as Ghostzapper, if one lives by speed numbers. Anything else is hyperbole. The horse ran 6 times. Not enough to make much of a judgment one way or another as far as what was being "witnessed", because people often see what they want to see, or what might be financially expedient for them to see. Some people have tried to crown him the next coming, and saying, as some have, that he is better than Secretariat, has a chilling effect on those not already drinking the kool-aid. I have seen long threads on social media of long-time racing fans and horsemen who saw Secretariat, Slew, the Bid, Cigar, Kelso, etc., scoffing at the idea. Retiring him has put an end to the possibilities for the horse to develop a longer resume and achieve whatever greatness he could. That is a shame. Fifty years from now, when people look back, they may not even remember his name as more than a footnote, if that, whereas a longer resume with similar successes could have made a difference. It's achievements that really matter. I can't imagine there are many horses in the hall of fame who only ran 6 times.

Lexington has the fewest at 7 starts, but they were mostly heat races of 4 miles so he actually ran much more than that suggests. He's also partly in the HOF because of his enormous influence on the breed as a sire.

[Squeaky]

The newer book on Lexington that was recommended here was excellent.