2022 Report of Mares Bred

[Slewfan2]

As to Tiz, maybe his numbers increased because Constitution is too expensive ?

i believe it has a lot to do with the fact he came in late for the 2021 season. he wasn't retired until late December/early January and i have a feeling i read somewhere he didn't start breeding until late February last year - which is why he didn't shuttle as planned -, and that would explain a smaller book then.

Makes sense, thanks !

[Slewfan2]

Its just what happens every year. Almost all stallions drop their 2nd years and continue to drop in books through their 4th, there might be a few that increase but its not the norm. Commercial breeders that sell their yearlings are on to the new stallions. Because by the time the 2nd crop reaches the sales, the first crop 2yos would already be racing and sometimes the judgement (way to early) is out already. By the time the 3rd crop reaches the auction the judgement will have been made by buyers. The only thing that changes this sometimes is if their first crop yearlings sell incredibly well.

Like Brunanas said Tiz The Law retired late, I mean still before the breeding season but he was supposed to race at 4. There could have been breeders who wanted to use him but had already signed contracts on their mares to other stallions. So it could a combination of that and Constitution's increased fee and really good progeny results and yearling auctions.

Thank you - makes so much sense !

Well, I believe in HAP - I believe he’ll do well, I really hope he does well. Most of Indy’s best sons are gone, though good old Mineshaft keeps on plugging away

[Miss Woodford]

The "He's Still Around?" award:
Weigelia - 41 - wonder what that private stud fee is
Greatness - 6 - last son of Mr. Prospector at stud
Closing Argument - 4
Yankee Gentleman - 4
Demon Warlock - 3
Power By Far - 2
David Copperfield - 1 - last son of Halo at stud
Outflanker - 1 - 28 years young!

The "Hey Good For You" award:
Hard Spun - 161
Raging Bull (FR) - 121 - please keep supporting young turf sires
Temple City - 63 - Dynaformer's heir apparent? certainly starting to look that way on the steeplechase side
Imperial Hint - 50 - almost as many TB mares as QH mares

The "Entirely Too Many Mares For You" award:
Charlatan - 222
also most of the approximately 10 billion Uncle Mos and Into Mischiefs that entered stud in the past few years

The "Oof" award:
Palace Malice - 12 - does Gun Runner not have any leftovers to give to the other Three Chimneys boys?
Gio Ponti - 8
Lea - 4
Tourist - 4
Itsmyluckyday - 1
Proudinsky - 1
almost all the Calumet stallions I don't understand what the deal is there

Other stallions of note:
Caravaggio - 145 - how did a stallion this popular get moved to Japan?
Done Talking - 24 - almost all of these are the owner's own mares and she runs most of the offspring herself, if you see a random SC-bred in a race odds are it's one of them
Venezuelan Hug - 12 - first year sire and prettiest pony https://mobile.twitter.com/DRFLivingsto ... 0270674951
Jonesboro - 5 - now pensioned at Old Friends
Pujol - 5 - this is a 2yo
Baronial - 3 - son of Personal Ensign who was reportedly found in a "kill pen" in Texas in May of 2021, but he has mares bred on file in Montana in 2021 and 2022 so I have to assume that was a false rumor
Master Rick - 2 - this is Beau Ridge Farm's teaser who gets a mare or two a year to keep him happy lol

[brunanas]

The "Entirely Too Many Mares For You" award:
Charlatan - 222
also most of the approximately 10 billion Uncle Mos and Into Mischiefs that entered stud in the past few years

of all the Uncle Mos, i think Uncle Chuck deserves a special mention. why the fuck are we breeding 132 mares to a colt who had more attempts at a comeback from a layoff than actual starts? Uncle Mo makes unsound babies and Forest Music seems to be even worse in that aspect. good luck getting those foals through more than um... 3 breezes without snapping their legs in half?

almost all the Calumet stallions I don't understand what the deal is there

i think i made a topic on that a while ago. i really don't understand what the thing is with them... i don't ever see stallion ads (not that it would make much of a difference, i guess), their stallions barely breed any mares - if at all. given what they once were prior to the ownership change, this is a really sad thing to witness...

Caravaggio - 145 - how did a stallion this popular get moved to Japan?

i have a theory it has at least something to do with his... shitty, to say the least... fertility. but who knows? i guess it also might be because his runners might suit the Japanese scenario better, as in more turf races. of course he could just go back to Europe though... now you got me wondering about that too

Pujol - 5 - this is a 2yo

aaaaaand i thought you had checked the wrong Pujol on Equibase. this is the only Pujol. God help us all. curious to see what his fertility will look like.

[brunanas]

about the Calumet stallions:

Keen Ice - 71
Oxbow - 27
Ransom the Moon - 26
Hightail - 24
Bal a Bali - 12 (wouldn't be surprised to see him return to stand in Brazil eventually, specially with his sire now gone)
Bravazo - 8
Real Solution - 8
Optimizer - 6
Big Blue Kitten - 2
True Timber - 2
Channel Cat - not bred (i remember we were confused about this one as he went back to breezing 2x in May and vanished again...?)
Mr. Z - not bred
Producer - not bred
Raison d'Etat - not bred

given these were some of their best numbers in recent memory, is it fair to ask how the hell does Calumet keep itself in the stallion market?

[Katewerk]

The "He's Still Around?" award:
Weigelia - 41 - wonder what that private stud fee is
Greatness - 6 - last son of Mr. Prospector at stud
David Copperfield - 1 - last son of Halo at stud

I don't understand the lack of imagination in this industry. So many mares going to the same dominant stallion lines, owned in some cases by people who have herds of 'em. It would just seem good breeder sense to set aside a few good mares and send them to such stallions.

[Flanders]

The "He's Still Around?" award:
Greatness - 6 - last son of Mr. Prospector at stud

The "Oof" award:
Palace Malice - 12 - does Gun Runner not have any leftovers to give to the other Three Chimneys boys?
almost all the Calumet stallions I don't understand what the deal is there

Other stallions of note:
Caravaggio - 145 - how did a stallion this popular get moved to Japan?
Pujol - 5 - this is a 2yo
Baronial - 3 - son of Personal Ensign who was reportedly found in a "kill pen" in Texas in May of 2021, but he has mares bred on file in Montana in 2021 and 2022 so I have to assume that was a false rumor

There are a couple more Mr. Prospector stallions out there:
Sasha's Prospect - 3 mares - 26 years old
Diamond - doesn't have a RMB but he has a 2023 fee on http://www.oklahomaequinehospital.com/okreprohome (side note they have a Storm Cat/QH mare cross stallion as well)
Shadow Hawk was advertised for 2022 but doesn't have a RMB. Can't find a site for where he stood/stands.

Palace Malice shouldn't be in Kentucky anymore. I don't blame breeders for not wanting to use him. He got his chances. He has 4 crops of racing age, 7 SWers. His only G1SW ran 4 times and is now at stud in Japan. His 2nd best and only G2SW ran 5 times before being injured and retired to stud. They had raised his stud fee after his first 2yos hit the track because he did get a BC Juvenile Turf winner in Structor. He got 207 mares in 2020. Those breeders mostly all lost money on a 25k stud fee & 21k yearling average, with 26 not even bringing 10k and more that RNAd with bids under 10k. He had probably the biggest drop off I've ever seen in mares bred from 2020 to 2021, 207 to 14.

The Calumet stallions, I sort of get it. They aren't advertised or supported by their owner so why would outside breeders use them? Most are overpriced and unfashionable. They couldn't even be bothered to update their stallion site to say Channel Cat wasn't standing there in 2022. They sent Lexitonian to Lane's End cause they knew they couldn't support him or get him supported themselves.

Caravaggio is like Declaration of War. They both were doing well with their first crop 3yos and getting mares but were sold anyway.

Pujol, I'm really hoping this is just a colt that jumped a fence or something and that the owner didn't choose to do this.

Baronial yeah idk I was the one that saw the information on Pedigreequery and found the tweet. Just seems weird, there was also a Facebook post about it. It looks like it was just a rumor. I felt because the people were legit it was okay to post here but now I regret it.

[Flanders]

The "Entirely Too Many Mares For You" award:
Charlatan - 222
also most of the approximately 10 billion Uncle Mos and Into Mischiefs that entered stud in the past few years

of all the Uncle Mos, i think Uncle Chuck deserves a special mention. why the fuck are we breeding 132 mares to a colt who had more attempts at a comeback from a layoff than actual starts? Uncle Mo makes unsound babies and Forest Music seems to be even worse in that aspect. good luck getting those foals through more than um... 3 breezes without snapping their legs in half?

Its cause he is a GSW by Uncle Mo and a 1/2 to MacLean's Music(who made even less starts). I'm not saying its a good thing but that combination is the reason. The only thing that surprised me about Uncle Chuck is that he didn't end up in Kentucky. I mean Caracaro is there, he didn't even win a Graded Stakes and only made 4 starts. He "only" got 72 mares though.

[Flanders]

Beau Liam - 162 (Airdrie)

Somehow even though I looked at this numerous times, I missed that Beau Liam got 162 mares. Yes he was brilliantly fast but he never won a stakes and only ran 4 times.

[Mylute]

The "Valiant Minister" effect.

[Ziggypop]

The "He's Still Around?" award:
Weigelia - 41 - wonder what that private stud fee is
Greatness - 6 - last son of Mr. Prospector at stud
David Copperfield - 1 - last son of Halo at stud

I don't understand the lack of imagination in this industry. So many mares going to the same dominant stallion lines, owned in some cases by people who have herds of 'em. It would just seem good breeder sense to set aside a few good mares and send them to such stallions.

It is about the sales. Money. Money.Money.

[Slewfan2]

Beau Liam - 162 (Airdrie)

Somehow even though I looked at this numerous times, I missed that Beau Liam got 162 mares. Yes he was brilliantly fast but he never won a stakes and only ran 4 times.

His sire got 177! Liam’s Map is a fine sire, but I don’t think he’s a superstar - how is he attracting this many mares?

Breeders love LM, so they love his son...he’s probably looked at as unlucky to have not won a stakes.

[mariasmon]

Seriously, how did a first-year G1W millionaire attract only 2 mares? I know True Timber is at Calumet, but STILL. I could understand breeders not flocking to him, but 2 mares?!

[brunanas]

Seriously, how did a first-year G1W millionaire attract only 2 mares? I know True Timber is at Calumet, but STILL. I could understand breeders not flocking to him, but 2 mares?!

and i wouldn't be surprised if those were Calumet owned mares...

[brunanas]

right now, given the numbers for "similar" stallions Uncle Chuck and Beau Liam, how many mares do you guys think Nashville will cover? 150+?
btw, by similar i mean super fast with barely any starts to their names. Beau Liam doesn't even have a stakes win, though Uncle Chuck is a G3W.
also given he's at a major KY farm that would breed their stallions to a 2-legged mule if they could

[Mylute]

Uncle Chuck is in Florida, and Beau Liam is at Airdrie, which I wouldn't really consider a big commercial operation.

Were you talking about Nashville?

Darby Dan is also "if it can whinny, it can be bred." Klimt got 200 mares his first year and nothing to show for it.

[mariasmon]

I will say one thing for Uncle Chuck. He is a LOOKER. The video the farm posted of him when he first retired there had my jaw on the floor.

[brunanas]

Were you talking about Nashville?

yes

[KatieK101]

Beau Liam - 162 (Airdrie)

Somehow even though I looked at this numerous times, I missed that Beau Liam got 162 mares. Yes he was brilliantly fast but he never won a stakes and only ran 4 times.

His sire got 177! Liam’s Map is a fine sire, but I don’t think he’s a superstar - how is he attracting this many mares?

I'll be honest, I'm not too surprised by the number of mares he got. I wouldn't call Liam's Map a superstar but he is consistent, and I'm sure his pedigree is a big draw as well (half to Not This Time, Matera, and Taylor S.); if his daughters never step foot on the track they'll still be sent to nice stallions and could prove to be a hot commodity (he hasn't had many broodmare prospects go to auction, so watch how his daughters sell this November, including Crazy Beautiful, Juju's Map and Wicked Whisper and that will be a good indicator). But his first crop yielded three G1Ws and a millionaire, as well as two other G2Ws; his second crop produced Crazy Beautiful who retired a millionaire and MGSW; his third crop produced another G1W in Juju's Map. This current crop already has some SP 2yos. So from only four crops, they're performing and selling well.

The icing on the cake is that the industry has been searching for an heir to Unbridled's Song for years, and with Arrogate's untimely passing, Liam's Map is probably your best bet.

It's fair for breeders to assume that with better mares, which I'm sure he's received recently, Liam's Map will reward them.

[Slewfan2]

Somehow even though I looked at this numerous times, I missed that Beau Liam got 162 mares. Yes he was brilliantly fast but he never won a stakes and only ran 4 times.

His sire got 177! Liam’s Map is a fine sire, but I don’t think he’s a superstar - how is he attracting this many mares?

I'll be honest, I'm not too surprised by the number of mares he got. I wouldn't call Liam's Map a superstar but he is consistent, and I'm sure his pedigree is a big draw as well (half to Not This Time, Matera, and Taylor S.); if his daughters never step foot on the track they'll still be sent to nice stallions and could prove to be a hot commodity (he hasn't had many broodmare prospects go to auction, so watch how his daughters sell this November, including Crazy Beautiful, Juju's Map and Wicked Whisper and that will be a good indicator). But his first crop yielded three G1Ws and a millionaire, as well as two other G2Ws; his second crop produced Crazy Beautiful who retired a millionaire and MGSW; his third crop produced another G1W in Juju's Map. This current crop already has some SP 2yos. So from only four crops, they're performing and selling well.

The icing on the cake is that the industry has been searching for an heir to Unbridled's Song for years, and with Arrogate's untimely passing, Liam's Map is probably your best bet.

It's fair for breeders to assume that with better mares, which I'm sure he's received recently, Liam's Map will reward them.

I just think it’s a bit much, especially since it appears CB and JM didn’t develop further as 3 year olds. He is capable of getting a very fast horse, though - and I agree about UBS.

Honor Code at 44 makes me sad...Indy’s best sons are all gone, and so there’s no one really to hold onto except HAP. I wouldn’t be shocked if HC is pensioned in a few years if his numbers don’t improve...and given he was bred to 29 mares last year, his racing stats in a few years will be non-existent. I expected a lot more from him as a sire...