2023 Fees

[KatieD]

I'm going with never.
I've been trying to come up with a list of horses that were even retired to a stud fee of 100k+. Its pretty rare, obviously the 2 Triple Crown winners. Before that I can only come up with Ghostzapper in 2006, Smarty Jones in 2005, Empire Maker in 2004, Point Given in 2002, and Fusaichi Pegasus in 2001. The only one I can come up with in the 90s was, I *think* Easy Goer started at 100k in 1991. Before that, no clue. Obviously I might be forgetting someone. I almost forgot to put Empire Maker on the list.

Do European horses count? Frankel started at £125k and Giant's Causeway (who meets the criteria for not winning a classic race nor a Breeders Cup race) at IR£ 100k.

As the original asker of the question… im going to say nah European horses don’t really count. The Guineas and Derby are definitely important and stallion making races, though the Derby is starting to wane, but the St Leger almost devalues any flat stallion prospects. If you want to charge over $100,000, the English Triple Crown would have to be on the line in order to bother running your colt. We also cant really hold it against any of them that they hardly ever win the BCC. They are almost all bred to run on grass, at least in their close up pedigrees.

They do have a big finale race like the Arc (and to a much lesser extent, the Champion Stakes), so you can see how that would add a boost I guess. Though even a phenom like Sea the Stars only started out at €85,000.

If we did include Euros though, Giant’s Causeway would fit the bill I suppose, but barely. Poor guy was 2nd in two different Guineas and the BCC, but won literally everything else. Frankel won the English 2,000 Guineas, so he wouldn’t count.

I believe Dubai Millennium started at £100,000 but I suspect a lot of the mares were ultimately foal shares due to his death during his first season at stud, so how many actually paid that, I have no idea.

But he never won a classic - 9th in the Derby and didn’t run in the Guineas or St Leger. In many ways I think he marked a turning point in TB breeding here: no Derby, no ‘Arc, no King George…

[starrydreamer]

Taylor Made

Stallion 2023 Fee(2022 Fee)
Not This Time - $135,000 ($75,000)
Knicks Go - $30,000 ($30,000)
Idol - $10,000 NEW
Tacitus - $10,000 ($10,000)
Instagrand - $7,500 ($7,500)
Instilled Regard - $7,500 ($7,500)
Rowayton - $7,500 (PVT)

Glad that it looks like Giant's Causeway got another good stallion son later in his career. He came in hot with Shamardal but then didn't really have a successor in the US.

That's a big jump in Not This Time's fee, but not unwarranted. I liked him when he was on the track but I didn't expect him to be such a good sire.

[KatieK101]

Taylor Made

Stallion 2023 Fee(2022 Fee)
Not This Time - $135,000 ($75,000)
Knicks Go - $30,000 ($30,000)
Idol - $10,000 NEW
Tacitus - $10,000 ($10,000)
Instagrand - $7,500 ($7,500)
Instilled Regard - $7,500 ($7,500)
Rowayton - $7,500 (PVT)

Glad that it looks like Giant's Causeway got another good stallion son later in his career. He came in hot with Shamardal but then didn't really have a successor in the US.

Sheesh. Big ol jump for NTT… I’m not sure if I think he’s priced correctly, $100k would be fair, but I his best bred foals are still in the pipeline so they’re probably anticipating bigger and better years from him.

Well regardless, how warming to see a son of GC doing so well at stud! The legacy continues!

[Mylute]

Rut roh Raggy! Where did Mshawish finally go?

[Mylute]

Claiborne

Blame - $25,000 (20,000)
Catholic Boy - $15,000 (20,000)
Demarchelier - $5,000 (5,000)
First Samurai - $7,500 (10,000)
Lea - $5,000 (5,000)
Mastery - $7,500 (10,000)
Runhappy - $15,000 ($12,000)
Silver State - $20,000 (20,000)
War Front - $100,000 (100,000)
War of Will - $25,000 (25,000)
Art Collector - ?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... -stud-fees

[PersonalE]

Claiborne

Blame - $25,000 (20,000)
Catholic Boy - $15,000 (20,000)
Demarchelier - $5,000 (5,000)
First Samurai - $7,500 (10,000)
Lea - $5,000 (5,000)
Mastery - $7,500 (10,000)
Runhappy - $15,000 ($12,000)
Silver State - $20,000 (20,000)
War Front - $100,000 (100,000)
War of Will - $25,000 (25,000)
Art Collector - ?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... -stud-fees

War Front is higher than I expected, given his fertility, progeny this year & sales.

[Flanders]

War Front is higher than I expected, given his fertility, progeny this year & sales.

He is doing fine this year. 11 SWers, 5 GSWs, 1 G1SW, yearlings sale average 250k. He has a limited book, breeders are still going to use him, even with a waning fertility.

[Northport]

Claiborne

Blame - $25,000 (20,000)
Catholic Boy - $15,000 (20,000)
Demarchelier - $5,000 (5,000)
First Samurai - $7,500 (10,000)
Lea - $5,000 (5,000)
Mastery - $7,500 (10,000)
Runhappy - $15,000 ($12,000)
Silver State - $20,000 (20,000)
War Front - $100,000 (100,000)
War of Will - $25,000 (25,000)
Art Collector - ?

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... -stud-fees

I was expecting to see Runhappy down to $10,000 or $7,500. He's had 5 blacktype winners in 2022, but no graded stakes winners, and his best graded stakes performer, Smile Happy, has fallen off the face of the earth since the Derby. I guess Mattress Mack gets to decide the fees?

[Flanders]

His yearling sales went up this year. Its crazy how much those alone can make a stud fee rise. He only bred 56 mares in 2021 but BH horse cards (you get 3 free every 45 days if you don't have BH+) has him getting 144 mares this year.

[Slewfan2]

I’ll really be interested how much Lane’s End slashes Honor Code’s fee...and they have to. He got a shocking 29 mares bred in 2021, which will destroy his numbers in a few years, and I doubt he got a decent number last year. He’s had another mediocre to poor year, and his better horses from last year were awful this year. I honestly wonder if LE would pension HC due to lack of interest - I don’t think Will Farish would ever sell him.

I’m looking forward to Honor A.P.’s first weanlings selling - despite what appears to me a very mediocre first book, especially for LE, his foals were gorgeous. Despite his sire, I think he’s going to be a very good sire. I just love him so much.

[Flanders]

I’ll really be interested how much Lane’s End slashes Honor Code’s fee...and they have to. He got a shocking 29 mares bred in 2021, which will destroy his numbers in a few years, and I doubt he got a decent number last year. He’s had another mediocre to poor year, and his better horses from last year were awful this year. I honestly wonder if LE would pension HC due to lack of interest - I don’t think Will Farish would ever sell him.

I’m looking forward to Honor A.P.’s first weanlings selling - despite what appears to me a very mediocre first book, especially for LE, his foals were gorgeous. Despite his sire, I think he’s going to be a very good sire. I just love him so much.

I'm using the free BH horsecards to see these numbers. Honor Code didn't get a lot more but he got at least 44 mares in 2022. Honor A.P. got 81. Report of mares bred should be out by the end of the month.

[Retrospectiv]

[Northport]

Those seem reasonable, though Kantharos didn't have a spectacular year on the track or in the sales ring but whateves.

Anyone keen to guess what the fee for Gun Runner will be? I'm sure his book was filled weeks (or months) ago, so do they go full Galileo and leave him as "private" or just publish whatever wild number they gave to breeders when they submitted their mares for the 2023 season?

$300,000?

[brunanas]

for comparison, here are their 2022 fees:
Army Mule - $7,500 (+ $5,000)
Charlatan - $50,000 (no change)
Curlin - $175,000 (+ $75,000)
Ghostzapper - $75,000 (no change)
Good Magic - $30,000
Kantharos - $20,000 (no change)
Lost Treasure - $5,000 (- $1,500)
Maclean's Music - $50,000 (no change)
Midnight Lute - $15,000 ( - $2,500)
Mucho Macho Man - $7,500 (no change)
Violence - $25,000 (+ $15,000)
World of Trouble - $7,500 (- $2,500)

[brunanas]

Those seem reasonable, though Kantharos didn't have a spectacular year on the track or in the sales ring but whateves.

Anyone keen to guess what the fee for Gun Runner will be? I'm sure his book was filled weeks (or months) ago, so do they go full Galileo and leave him as "private" or just publish whatever wild number they gave to breeders when they submitted their mares for the 2023 season?

$300,000?

i would guess around $250,000?

[Flanders]

Those seem reasonable, though Kantharos didn't have a spectacular year on the track or in the sales ring but whateves.

Anyone keen to guess what the fee for Gun Runner will be? I'm sure his book was filled weeks (or months) ago, so do they go full Galileo and leave him as "private" or just publish whatever wild number they gave to breeders when they submitted their mares for the 2023 season?

$300,000?

I said in one of these threads I wouldn't be surprised if they went Into Mischief level with him. I would expect at least 200k. I don't know if they limit books there but they could just leave him Private for the breeders who want to call and see what it is.

[Slewfan2]

I’ll really be interested how much Lane’s End slashes Honor Code’s fee...and they have to. He got a shocking 29 mares bred in 2021, which will destroy his numbers in a few years, and I doubt he got a decent number last year. He’s had another mediocre to poor year, and his better horses from last year were awful this year. I honestly wonder if LE would pension HC due to lack of interest - I don’t think Will Farish would ever sell him.

I’m looking forward to Honor A.P.’s first weanlings selling - despite what appears to me a very mediocre first book, especially for LE, his foals were gorgeous. Despite his sire, I think he’s going to be a very good sire. I just love him so much.

I'm using the free BH horsecards to see these numbers. Honor Code didn't get a lot more but he got at least 44 mares in 2022. Honor A.P. got 81. Report of mares bred should be out by the end of the month.

HAP only got 81 mares? Wow,
That’s awful. Is he really suffering that much for his sire?

Thank you!

[CoronadosQuest]

Curlin has just been such a consistent fantastic sire and I LOVE it! I also am so happy that Gun Runner is as well (because I called him lil Curlin when he raced, cus he reminded me of him lol)

[Summer Bird]

Those seem reasonable, though Kantharos didn't have a spectacular year on the track or in the sales ring but whateves.

Anyone keen to guess what the fee for Gun Runner will be? I'm sure his book was filled weeks (or months) ago, so do they go full Galileo and leave him as "private" or just publish whatever wild number they gave to breeders when they submitted their mares for the 2023 season?

$300,000?

There’s talk he could very well jump to 300,000. Guess we shall see!

[starrydreamer]

War Front is higher than I expected, given his fertility, progeny this year & sales.

He is doing fine this year. 11 SWers, 5 GSWs, 1 G1SW, yearlings sale average 250k. He has a limited book, breeders are still going to use him, even with a waning fertility.

This. He may "only" have 11 stakes winners but it's 7.6% of his runners. Only Gun Runner and Not This Time have higher percentages. He's also third on the Turf Sires list, only behind Kitten's Joy and English Channel, both who have died.

I think they'll take his stud fee private in the future instead of dropping it, considering he's nearing the end of his career. Claiborne has managed him so well.