Photos/News about Broodmares

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Miss Woodford
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Wed May 25, 2022 12:18 pm

ThreeMustangs wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:53 pm This is a fine mess…

Suit Alleges Stakes-Winning Broodmare Prospect is Male

Kept True competed against females in 14 races and won over $300,000.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ium=social
There are several conditions that can cause this, they all get lumped together in horses as "XY Sex Reversal Syndrome".
There were two cases of XY Standardbreds where they had been competing as mares, had ambiguous external genitalia , exhibited stallion-like behavior and were reclassified as males by the racing jurisdiction after testosterone testing had been implemented. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21401432/
There have also been cases of XY mares with androgen insensitivity syndrome - these mares look normal externally and have undescended testes. They have elevated testosterone but their bodies turn some or all of it into estrogen so depending on the degree of insensitivity may behave like stallions or mares. Apparently one "successful" TB mare had this condition but I can't find the name, just the case study https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26281448/
Finally there are XY mares where the ovaries simply do not develop but everything else appears identical to any other mare. Apart from not going into heat these mares are difficult to distinguish without direct imagery of the ovaries. That might be what's happening with Keep True. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25308063/
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TwilightTear
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Wed May 25, 2022 12:28 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:43 pm
TwilightTear wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:14 pm
ThreeMustangs wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:53 pm This is a fine mess…

Suit Alleges Stakes-Winning Broodmare Prospect is Male

Kept True competed against females in 14 races and won over $300,000.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ium=social
That sounds like the type of twisted fact pattern a law school professor trots out on an exam. :?
So my question is were her testosterone levels never tested while racing since she won several stakes? Isn't that one of the things they usually test for? Also, I wonder whether these vet exams where they certifying broodmares as suitable for breeding all include a rectal exam with ultrasound and endocrine testing to see what the hormone levels are - one way or another, I can't see "her's" as being normal.
I don't know about her in-racing tests (if any), but in terms of being certified as suitable for mating, Keeneland's conditions of sale state:

Suitable for Mating. Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus and cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within reasonably normal limits.

Fasig-Tipton defines "suitable for mating" as:

Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus or cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina, does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within normal limits.

So it sounds like no, they don't need to do endocrine testing, but she did need to at least undergo a rectal examination. If she has no ovaries, I'm not sure how she could have been normal on the rectal exam.
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Flanders
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Wed May 25, 2022 11:06 pm

I know in the mid-late 90s the GSW/G1p Shoop didn't have ovaries.
tachyon
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Dust and Diamonds(USA) (Vindication)

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the dam of the Japanese Derby winner Do Deuce at Northern Farm (in March 2019)
TapitsGal
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Squeaky wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:18 pm Any updates on Zenyatta being bred and to whom?
I've seen people speculate that Zilkha will be zenyattas last foal and she will be pensioned but obviously that's just speculation and we will need to wait for official word from the mosses or lanes end. I wouldn't be surprised though. Zenyatta hasn't had much luck as a broodmare.
TapitsGal
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TwilightTear wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:28 pm
CorridorZ75 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:43 pm
TwilightTear wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:14 pm

That sounds like the type of twisted fact pattern a law school professor trots out on an exam. :?
So my question is were her testosterone levels never tested while racing since she won several stakes? Isn't that one of the things they usually test for? Also, I wonder whether these vet exams where they certifying broodmares as suitable for breeding all include a rectal exam with ultrasound and endocrine testing to see what the hormone levels are - one way or another, I can't see "her's" as being normal.
I don't know about her in-racing tests (if any), but in terms of being certified as suitable for mating, Keeneland's conditions of sale state:

Suitable for Mating. Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus and cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within reasonably normal limits.

Fasig-Tipton defines "suitable for mating" as:

Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus or cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina, does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within normal limits.

So it sounds like no, they don't need to do endocrine testing, but she did need to at least undergo a rectal examination. If she has no ovaries, I'm not sure how she could have been normal on the rectal exam.
Would the buyers be responsible for having a vet do the "suitable of mating" exam? Or the sellers/consigners. I forget which racing news site I was reading but I remember one of the articles saying that Crawford Farms never had a vet examine Kept True before they bid on her and bought her at the sale which I thought was odd. Isn't part of buying a horse usually having at least a pre-cursory pre-purchase exam done on the sales grounds when you are looking at horses on your short list?
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TwilightTear
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Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:10 pm

TapitsGal wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:11 am
TwilightTear wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:28 pm
CorridorZ75 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:43 pm

So my question is were her testosterone levels never tested while racing since she won several stakes? Isn't that one of the things they usually test for? Also, I wonder whether these vet exams where they certifying broodmares as suitable for breeding all include a rectal exam with ultrasound and endocrine testing to see what the hormone levels are - one way or another, I can't see "her's" as being normal.
I don't know about her in-racing tests (if any), but in terms of being certified as suitable for mating, Keeneland's conditions of sale state:

Suitable for Mating. Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus and cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within reasonably normal limits.

Fasig-Tipton defines "suitable for mating" as:

Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus or cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina, does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within normal limits.

So it sounds like no, they don't need to do endocrine testing, but she did need to at least undergo a rectal examination. If she has no ovaries, I'm not sure how she could have been normal on the rectal exam.
Would the buyers be responsible for having a vet do the "suitable of mating" exam? Or the sellers/consigners. I forget which racing news site I was reading but I remember one of the articles saying that Crawford Farms never had a vet examine Kept True before they bid on her and bought her at the sale which I thought was odd. Isn't part of buying a horse usually having at least a pre-cursory pre-purchase exam done on the sales grounds when you are looking at horses on your short list?
Since I am a lawyer, let me preface this by saying I am in no way offering legal advice. (I know you're not asking for legal advice, but I don't want someone else reading this to rely on something posted on a message board by someone who isn't even licensed in Kentucky.)

I read the Terms & Conditions as the seller is the one certifying or warranting that the filly or mare is "suitable for mating" at the time of the sale. Condition Fourteen states:

Each broodmare in this sale shall be offered with veterinary certificate provided by the Consignor in conformity with standards established by the American Association of Equine Practitioners (A.A.E.P.) showing her to be either (1) pregnant, in the opinion of the examining veterinarian, based on appropriate examination within ten (10) days prior to the date of sale, or (2) not pregnant, but suitable for mating in the opinion of the examining veterinarian based upon appropriate examination within ten (10) days prior to the date of sale.

"Suitable for Mating," as defined by Keenland, means that the mare has a uterus, ovaries, and cervix that are free from significant abnormalities and the mare is normal within reasonably normal limits as determined by rectal palpation and a speculum exam. The T&C makes clear that "Suitable for Mating" does not mean that the seller is certifying or warranting that the mare can or will become pregnant, and that if further tests would show something about the mare that renders her unsuitable for breeding, that would be on the buyer to discover prior to the sale. So, essentially, this would be like buying a used car where the seller tells you the car has an air conditioning system but does not warrant to you that the AC system necessarily will blow cold air. Since Kept True didn't have ovaries at all (at least based on what's been reported), she would not have met the definition of "suitable for mating." This would be like the car you bought not having an air conditioning system at all.

The reason there is a lawsuit is, per the T&C, the buyer has 24-hours from the end of the sale to ask to rescind the sale because the buyer's vet finds the mare is not as certified. (Had that happened, if the seller's vet disagreed, then Keenland would have appointed a 3rd party vet to arbitrate the dispute.) Since Kept True's buyer did not act quickly, there ended up being a lawsuit versus a simple recission of the sale.

I don't know Kentucky law, and I don't work with equines. However, I deal with warranty law a lot. Not exercising the right to rescind means a change in the damages. Had they moved to rescind within 24-hours, Kept True's buyer would have gotten their money back. Since they did not, their damages would be the difference between Kept True as warranted and how she actually is. In the case of the car, that would mean the price of installing an air conditioning system, essentially. In the case of Kept True, it would likely be her nominal value as a riding or companion horse versus her price as a potential broodmare.
tachyon
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tachyon wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:51 am R.I.P Vodka. :cry:

I would think that this link below also provided a good write-up in english about the passing of the great mare.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/b ... -15/374008
Vodka's tombstone in Newmarket

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Flanders
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Mon Jun 13, 2022 3:16 am

Pics of Callingmissbrown, dam of Mo Donegal, and Marion Ravenwood, dam of Nest and Idol. Article says its about deep diving into the ancestry of the Belmont winner and runner up but its more just the winner, with a little about Marion Ravenwood.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... -runner-up
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TwilightTear
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Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:46 am

Foal Patrol had an entry a few days ago that stated featured 2021 mare Miss Always Ready did not survive her colic episode last year. She colicked about 24 hours after giving birth to a full sister to Structor. Miss Always Ready was also the dam of graded stakes placed Always Carina.

Miss Always Ready has a 2020 Gun Runner filly named Ana's Gun and another 2019 full sister to Structor named Miss Segura. Her 2021 Palace Malice hasn't been named yet.

https://www.foalpatrol.com/horses/miss- ... 5#nid-2695
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Flanders
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Feathered, dam of Flightline. Link has pics of her, her yearling colt by Curlin and her 2022 filly by Into Mischief

https://twitter.com/MoreSummerWind/stat ... 0156730371
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Retrospectiv
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Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:08 pm

TwilightTear wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:10 pm
TapitsGal wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:11 am
TwilightTear wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:28 pm

I don't know about her in-racing tests (if any), but in terms of being certified as suitable for mating, Keeneland's conditions of sale state:

Suitable for Mating. Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus and cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within reasonably normal limits.

Fasig-Tipton defines "suitable for mating" as:

Any filly or mare that is not pregnant at the time of examination shall be characterized as “suitable for mating” if a palpation per rectum of the ovaries, uterus or cervix, and speculum examination of the cervix and vagina, does not reveal significant abnormalities that would indicate that the filly or mare is not reproductively within normal limits.

So it sounds like no, they don't need to do endocrine testing, but she did need to at least undergo a rectal examination. If she has no ovaries, I'm not sure how she could have been normal on the rectal exam.
Would the buyers be responsible for having a vet do the "suitable of mating" exam? Or the sellers/consigners. I forget which racing news site I was reading but I remember one of the articles saying that Crawford Farms never had a vet examine Kept True before they bid on her and bought her at the sale which I thought was odd. Isn't part of buying a horse usually having at least a pre-cursory pre-purchase exam done on the sales grounds when you are looking at horses on your short list?
Since I am a lawyer, let me preface this by saying I am in no way offering legal advice. (I know you're not asking for legal advice, but I don't want someone else reading this to rely on something posted on a message board by someone who isn't even licensed in Kentucky.)

I read the Terms & Conditions as the seller is the one certifying or warranting that the filly or mare is "suitable for mating" at the time of the sale. Condition Fourteen states:

Each broodmare in this sale shall be offered with veterinary certificate provided by the Consignor in conformity with standards established by the American Association of Equine Practitioners (A.A.E.P.) showing her to be either (1) pregnant, in the opinion of the examining veterinarian, based on appropriate examination within ten (10) days prior to the date of sale, or (2) not pregnant, but suitable for mating in the opinion of the examining veterinarian based upon appropriate examination within ten (10) days prior to the date of sale.

"Suitable for Mating," as defined by Keenland, means that the mare has a uterus, ovaries, and cervix that are free from significant abnormalities and the mare is normal within reasonably normal limits as determined by rectal palpation and a speculum exam. The T&C makes clear that "Suitable for Mating" does not mean that the seller is certifying or warranting that the mare can or will become pregnant, and that if further tests would show something about the mare that renders her unsuitable for breeding, that would be on the buyer to discover prior to the sale. So, essentially, this would be like buying a used car where the seller tells you the car has an air conditioning system but does not warrant to you that the AC system necessarily will blow cold air. Since Kept True didn't have ovaries at all (at least based on what's been reported), she would not have met the definition of "suitable for mating." This would be like the car you bought not having an air conditioning system at all.

The reason there is a lawsuit is, per the T&C, the buyer has 24-hours from the end of the sale to ask to rescind the sale because the buyer's vet finds the mare is not as certified. (Had that happened, if the seller's vet disagreed, then Keenland would have appointed a 3rd party vet to arbitrate the dispute.) Since Kept True's buyer did not act quickly, there ended up being a lawsuit versus a simple recission of the sale.

I don't know Kentucky law, and I don't work with equines. However, I deal with warranty law a lot. Not exercising the right to rescind means a change in the damages. Had they moved to rescind within 24-hours, Kept True's buyer would have gotten their money back. Since they did not, their damages would be the difference between Kept True as warranted and how she actually is. In the case of the car, that would mean the price of installing an air conditioning system, essentially. In the case of Kept True, it would likely be her nominal value as a riding or companion horse versus her price as a potential broodmare.
The problem in all of this is that both the seller, the vet and Keeneland posted and sold the mare as suitable for mating. Because the check is part of Keenelan's requirements, there's not a lot of reason for a buyer to jump within 24 hours to reconfirm that fact. It's in writing already.
Regardless of Keeneland's 24 arbitration window, they should have absolutely backed that sale down. They made thousands off the comission of the sale so it's easy for them to say no we're not going to cooperate.
I work for an auction company much bigger than Keeneland, and we also have a 24 hour arbitration window after a purchase. For a screw up like this, you can be sure we'd have backed that sale down and made it right for the buyer. They falsely declared her suitable for mating based off the (clearly wrong) vet report. As someone in the auction business for 15 years, it just makes them look very bad that they were so unwilling to help the buyer.
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway', but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies."
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Flanders
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Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:09 pm

video of 6 Stonestreet mares and their 2022 foals (Peggy Jane, Lady Aurelia, Dreaming of Julia, Mia Mischief, Glinda The Good and Authenticity)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-7m4cmoejk
Missbeholder
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Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:57 am

Flanders wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:09 pm video of 6 Stonestreet mares and their 2022 foals (Peggy Jane, Lady Aurelia, Dreaming of Julia, Mia Mischief, Glinda The Good and Authenticity)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-7m4cmoejk
I enjoyed watching that very much, Flanders! Thanks so much for sharing it!😍
RugbyGirl
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Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:19 am

There is a lot to enjoy about this post from Torryburn Stud (Australia) sending their farm graduate Home Affairs well wishes for his Royal Ascot race tonight. But my favourite is his dam Miss Interiors wearing a Home Affairs cap! She genuinely looks quite proud....
https://www.facebook.com/16809527221369 ... AMBdCnEWl/
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flytpthestars
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Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:47 pm

Does Northern Farm own Proud Spell? If so, whats the best way to reach out to them?
CorridorZ75
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Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:37 pm

flytpthestars wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:47 pm Does Northern Farm own Proud Spell? If so, whats the best way to reach out to them?
Northern Racing is listed as the breeder of all her foals, so one would assume yes.

They have a website that you might be able to get a query through.
https://www.northernfarm.jp/information ... post-3310/
RugbyGirl
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Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:36 pm

Recent photo of Winx released to coincide with the G3 Winx Guineas last weekend. LSD on her Pierro foal is 17-Oct so will be due late September.
https://twitter.com/SkyRacingAU/status/ ... nwljA&s=19
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Squeaky
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Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:43 pm

Flanders wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:36 pm Feathered, dam of Flightline. Link has pics of her, her yearling colt by Curlin and her 2022 filly by Into Mischief

https://twitter.com/MoreSummerWind/stat ... 0156730371
Is she currently in foal and to whom- looks like it
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Squeaky
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Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:44 pm

brunanas wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:39 pm
Squeaky wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:18 pm Any updates on Zenyatta being bred and to whom?
gotta wait for the breeding reports to be released. but i honestly doubt they'll breed her.
War Front reported on another thread
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