Foaling Season 2022

Flanders · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:10 pm

aethervox wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:53 pm
Flanders wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:33 am No. Each horse has 2 color genes, one from their sire and one from their dam. Honor Code definitely has 2 bay genes(homozygous) as he has never sired a chestnut. He has only sired bays, dkb/br, black and greys. Grey is a color modifier and a horse has a 50% chance of passing that gene on. So he was bred to grey mares and they passed the color modifier gene onto those foals.
It looks like Honor A P may be the same. He would have definitely received a bay gene from Honor Code and most likely from Hollywood Story.
A.P. Indy was bay/chestnut color genes. We can see that because he was bay but he sired chestnut foals. That chestnut gene he had would have come from Secretariat because Seattle Slew also could not sire chestnuts and Weekend Surprise was bay but her sire was Secretariat. Chestnut is a recessive gene, meaning it will only show if there are 2 copies of it. So Secretariat could only pass on the chestnut gene.
Sorry to jump in here, but there are 2 sets of genes (4 genes) involved in bay coloring. (There are variations and other genes that can modify color, but it gets complicated).

One set of genes determines the base color, Black or Chestnut (red). These are usually abbreviated as B - black (capitalized because it's dominant) and b - red (lower case because it's recessive). If a horse receives a B gene from either parent, it's base color is black. If it gets 2 b genes it's a chestnut.

The second set of genes, abbreviated A, determines if a horse is Bay. Upper case means it's present, lower case means it's not. The A gene acts on a black base coat, and limits the black to the extremities. (Imagine a person wearing a black, long-sleeved T-shirt and putting a red, short-sleeved T-shirt over it). A is dominant to a, so only a horse with aa is black (which is why black is rare). Red horses can have the A gene but it won't show because the A gene only acts on the B gene (imagine putting a red, short-sleeved T-shirt over a red, long-sleeved T-shirt). That means you can breed a black horse to a chestnut horse and get a bay.

So a bay horse would be Bx Ax (where x is either form of the gene)
A black horse would be Bx aa
A chestnut horse would be either bb Ax or bb aa.

A horse that only produces bay foals would be BB AA.
A horse that only produces bay or black foals would be BB Ax.

The only way to be sure what genes the horse carries is to do a DNA test.

I hope this helps.
aethervox

Yeah I know it was more complicated and that there are 2 different genes. I was just doing the generalized stuff. You can tell if a stallion has the red(chestnut) gene or not by the foals he has. A stallion isn't going to have multiple crops of foals and not have a chestnut if he could produce one.

Mylute · Fri Mar 18, 2022 4:26 pm

Cute family photo:

Group 1 winner Lady Jane Digby (left) with her Sea The Moon filly foal, together with winning daughter Dame Freya Stark and her filly foal by Sea The Moon

Flanders · Fri Mar 18, 2022 6:29 pm

flashy colt - by Into Mischief - Dream Pauline, by Tapit

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbQFGXbMdoK/

Retrospectiv · Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:54 am

aethervox wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 2:53 pm
Flanders wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:33 am No. Each horse has 2 color genes, one from their sire and one from their dam. Honor Code definitely has 2 bay genes(homozygous) as he has never sired a chestnut. He has only sired bays, dkb/br, black and greys. Grey is a color modifier and a horse has a 50% chance of passing that gene on. So he was bred to grey mares and they passed the color modifier gene onto those foals.
It looks like Honor A P may be the same. He would have definitely received a bay gene from Honor Code and most likely from Hollywood Story.
A.P. Indy was bay/chestnut color genes. We can see that because he was bay but he sired chestnut foals. That chestnut gene he had would have come from Secretariat because Seattle Slew also could not sire chestnuts and Weekend Surprise was bay but her sire was Secretariat. Chestnut is a recessive gene, meaning it will only show if there are 2 copies of it. So Secretariat could only pass on the chestnut gene.
Sorry to jump in here, but there are 2 sets of genes (4 genes) involved in bay coloring. (There are variations and other genes that can modify color, but it gets complicated).

One set of genes determines the base color, Black or Chestnut (red). These are usually abbreviated as B - black (capitalized because it's dominant) and b - red (lower case because it's recessive). If a horse receives a B gene from either parent, it's base color is black. If it gets 2 b genes it's a chestnut.

The second set of genes, abbreviated A, determines if a horse is Bay. Upper case means it's present, lower case means it's not. The A gene acts on a black base coat, and limits the black to the extremities. (Imagine a person wearing a black, long-sleeved T-shirt and putting a red, short-sleeved T-shirt over it). A is dominant to a, so only a horse with aa is black (which is why black is rare). Red horses can have the A gene but it won't show because the A gene only acts on the B gene (imagine putting a red, short-sleeved T-shirt over a red, long-sleeved T-shirt). That means you can breed a black horse to a chestnut horse and get a bay.

So a bay horse would be Bx Ax (where x is either form of the gene)
A black horse would be Bx aa
A chestnut horse would be either bb Ax or bb aa.

A horse that only produces bay foals would be BB AA.
A horse that only produces bay or black foals would be BB Ax.

The only way to be sure what genes the horse carries is to do a DNA test.

I hope this helps.
aethervox

Your descriptions are a bit off.
There is no such thing as 'B' or 'x'.
There are 3 base colours - red, black and bay.
All horses carry some combination of red factor (E e) and agouti (A a). Whether they carry dominant or recessive versions of those genes determines their base colour.
Many people get confused by E, and think horses who are homozygous for dominant extension (EE) are 'homozygous black'. That's an incorrect term as e is the ability to produce red and black pigment.
HAP is likely homozygous dominant extension (EE) as he hasn't sired a chestnut foal - yet. An EE horse will always pass that E and thus never pass the recessive e needed to produce a red foal. Because he's bay, we know he has at least one A. If he's EE AA he would sire nothing but bays (and greys via the dams genes). If he's EE Aa he can sire bay and black foals.
Here's the basics from UC Davis for anyone interested in going down that genetics rabbit hole...
https://vgl.ucdavis.edu/resources/horse-coat-color

aethervox · Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:40 pm

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:54 am
Your descriptions are a bit off.
There is no such thing as 'B' or 'x'.
There are 3 base colours - red, black and bay.
All horses carry some combination of red factor (E e) and agouti (A a). Whether they carry dominant or recessive versions of those genes determines their base colour.
Many people get confused by E, and think horses who are homozygous for dominant extension (EE) are 'homozygous black'. That's an incorrect term as e is the ability to produce red and black pigment.
HAP is likely homozygous dominant extension (EE) as he hasn't sired a chestnut foal - yet. An EE horse will always pass that E and thus never pass the recessive e needed to produce a red foal. Because he's bay, we know he has at least one A. If he's EE AA he would sire nothing but bays (and greys via the dams genes). If he's EE Aa he can sire bay and black foals.
Here's the basics from UC Davis for anyone interested in going down that genetics rabbit hole...
https://vgl.ucdavis.edu/resources/horse-coat-color

Sorry, I forgot the abbreviation for the black/red gene is E/e not B/b. I used 'x' as a variable meaning either dominant or recessive gene.

Genetics of coat color is indeed quite a rabbit hole... they still haven't figured everything out!
aethervox.

Mylute · Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:52 am

California champion Unzip Me (by City Zip) foaled a filly by Om with a nice big white face.

All four of Unzip Me's progeny to race are winners.

Flanders · Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:31 pm

If any of these are already in here sorry, I tried to search for War of Will but it said all the words were too common. It takes too long to search for each mares name.

Pics here for most of them: https://claibornefarm.com/war-of-wills- ... s-already/
There are some different pics of 3, plus one of the others on the list in today's TDN: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/p ... 220321.pdf
They are exceptionally cute.

colt by War of Will - Bayou Tortuga, Empire Maker
colt by War of Will - Classydame, by Blame
colt by War of Will - Cloud Charmer, by Arch
filly by War of Will - Colina Verde, by Know Heights
filly by War of Will - Eyeinthesky, by Sky Mesa
colt by War of Will - Harmony Victory, by More Than Ready
colt by War of Will - Lope, by Arch
filly by War of Will - Plea, by Lea
filly by War of Will - Pledge Pin, by Chatain
colt by War of Will - More Fun Again, by Flatter
filly by War of Will - Take me to Hardoon, by Violence
colt by War of Will - Tizsfranderella, by Tizway
filly by War of Will - Treasured Up, by Medaglia d'Oro

TwilightTear · Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:01 am

I won't pretend to be an expert on foal conformation, but I can see why Claiborne is eager to show off War of Will's foals. Not only are they definitely cute, but they look like athletes and seem very "leggy."

Mylute · Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:28 pm

Colt by G2W Yucatan (Galileo/Six Perfections) o/o Irina (by Itao). Yucatan currently stands at Stadnina Krasne in Poland. Irina was foaled in Bulgaria.

https://www.facebook.com/stadninakonikrasne/

Mylute · Tue Mar 22, 2022 4:32 pm

Colt by 2x Polish HOTY and Triple Crown winner Va Bank o/o Hamada (by Great Lakes). Va Bank stands alongside Yucatan.

tachyon · Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:27 am

colt(FR) - Persian King(IRE) x Toride(FR)(1/2 to Treve)

at Haras du Quesnay

ThreeMustangs · Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:18 pm

@JuddmonteFarms
This filly out of Group One-placed JUBILOSO by Wootton Bassett is loving this Spring weather!

Jubiloso is out of the Listed winner Joyeuse, a half-sister to FRANKEL.

Mylute · Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:29 pm

Finally! A War of Will baby with daddy's face! Filly out of MSW Ruffenuff (Dialed In).

Mylute · Sun Mar 27, 2022 8:31 pm

MG1W New Money Honey successfully foaled a colt by Into Mischief! Very happy she recovered well enough to try again.
https://twitter.com/e5Racing/status/1508177671494279169

SP Mutually Benefit (half to Malibu Moon) foaled a colt by War of Will. Very interesting blaze.
https://twitter.com/craigb1818/status/1 ... 1315869709

ThreeMustangs · Tue Mar 29, 2022 9:54 pm

A photo gallery of Enable and her little prince:

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/f ... tud/542703

CorridorZ75 · Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:42 pm

It is sad there are no other mares and foals in the paddock.

Northport · Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:11 pm

If they had a photographer out for a photoshoot of them and only them, they probably specifically turned them out alone on purpose. I wouldnt read into it too much.

Mylute · Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:22 pm

G1P Thais (Rio de la Plata) foaled a filly by Sottsass.

White Birch posted a video to Facebook.

Mylute · Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:58 pm

Sleepy colt by Bated Breath o/o Elizabeth Bennet (Acclamation). Possibly black.

Oakshott Bloodstock

mariasmon · Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:23 pm

Northport wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 3:11 pm If they had a photographer out for a photoshoot of them and only them, they probably specifically turned them out alone on purpose. I wouldnt read into it too much.

Also, farms handle things differently and the foal may not yet have reached the age where Juddmonte turns them out in groups. The scenario where it was done for the photographer is more likely, though. Enable's foal is, what, 6 weeks old?