Loss of a stallion

[SukiSatsuki]

Which stallion would have the most impact if they were to pass? I know with the loss of Galileo last year theres a massive hole to fill hopefully his sons would be able to fill. Do you guys think they could ever be replaced?

[Mylute]

Into Mischief
Uncle Mo
Tapit (though he is older)

[SukiSatsuki]

Into Mischief
Uncle Mo
Tapit (though he is older)

I am not ready for Tapit

[BaroqueAgain1]

Dubawi.

[Northport]

More Than Ready. He’s the best shuttler since Danehill.

I think Frankel is on his way to replacing Galileo.

Deep Impact may be irreplaceable. But they said the same thing about Sunday Silence.

[KatieK101]

I'm not sure many stallions are truly irreplaceable, but loosing Into Mischief tomorrow would feel a lot like loosing Scat Daddy, I think. Especially since he's officially sired the last two Kentucky Derby winners. He's also one of the biggest stallions to not have an obvious heir since all of his sons are so young, although Authentic will be given every chance to succeed.

Medaglia d'Oro is another one that doesn't have a definite heir right now and he would certainly be a loss.

I don't care how many sons he has at stud, Curlin might leave the biggest void.

[brunanas]

I'm not sure many stallions are truly irreplaceable, but loosing Into Mischief tomorrow would feel a lot like loosing Scat Daddy, I think. Especially since he's officially sired the last two Kentucky Derby winners. He's also one of the biggest stallions to not have an obvious heir since all of his sons are so young, although Authentic will be given every chance to succeed.

Medaglia d'Oro is another one that doesn't have a definite heir right now and he would certainly be a loss.

I don't care how many sons he has at stud, Curlin might leave the biggest void.

with the amount of mares Into Mischief is given every year, i'm really afraid his heart won't handle many more seasons. and i don't think Spendthrift plans on slowing down. sad thing to say of course but it's really difficult for a stallion's heart to handle over 215 mares every year. got to 296 at one point. given how important he is to the breed i wish they would be more respectful of his limits. Tapit's book is always shorter and it's not because of lack of interest. i honestly don't understand why we talk so much about abuse in the racetrack and so little about abuse in the breeding shed

[Slewfan2]

I’ve already been crushed by the loss of Indy and Bernardini....Tapit would be a gargantuan loss

[Flanders]

I've been thinking about how I want to answer the question. It can be answered many ways. Part of me wants to say that a stallion can't be replaced because of his own unique contributions to the breed or simply because he is a fan favorite or a top stallion. But the harsh reality is, sure they can be replaced. Either a son(s) or grandson becomes a great stallion or someone else will fill that void.

The perfect example, imo, is Scat Daddy. He died at 11, he was a phenomenal stallion that never got to stand for a huge fee or breed the top mares. He got 12% SWs to foals. When he passed he only had 5 crops of racing age, with 3 more yet to race. He was supposed to stand for 100k in 2016, up from 35k. He was able to sire top horses on dirt and turf. Would his incredible 12% SWs to foals have gone up when he got to breed the better mares? Maybe. Have they found a replacement? He only has a few sons with foals of racing age and they are doing okay, they aren't doing what he did, though that is a very very lofty goal to hope for. Its a rare stallion that can hit those kinds of numbers with the huge books common today. So rare in fact that Bloodhorse leading sire list now doesn't even show that stat, they changed it to stakes winners from starters. But breeders moved on, bred to other stallions. I guarantee we've seen foals race that were the result of their dams not being able to be bred to Scat Daddy. Its the butterfly effect. Things do change because certain things happened. Like Halo not being sold to stud in France, or we wouldn't have had Sunday Silence or More Than Ready. Or Holy Bull being retired with an injury early at 4, we wouldn't have had Munnings or Medina Spirit.

To pick out one stallion though is rough cause of course I want to say personal favorites. An older stallion passing, they all have so many sons/grandsons at stud that in the grand scheme of the breed, I'm not sure it really matters unless they have some rare sire line. I guess I'll say Uncle Mo. Because he is the most outcross stallion that is in the upper ranks of the US stallion market. Yes he still has a ton of crosses to Northern Dancer and a couple further back to Raise A Native but he is free of Mr. Prospector and Seattle Slew blood. Which let's his sons and daughters be bred on with less inbreeding. I would have much rather picked someone like Include or Tiznow(both now pensioned) who don't have a top son that is carrying on their lines in the US. Tiznow still has a hope and maybe that is Midnight Bourbon's destiny when he goes to stud.

[Falinadin]

I agree with Flanders, I had to think about this because it could be taken a few different ways. Tapit is amazing, but would it make that big of an "impact" if he passed? He's got sons and grandsons at stud, he's made his impact.
I would consider Not This Time. Storm Cat was a hugely popular sire in the early 2000s but failed to be a sire of sires except for one - Giant's Causeway. Giant's Causeway was also a great sire, but also failed to be a sire of sires (maybe Bricks and Mortar will do something in Japan)... except for Not This Time. IMO Not This Time is carrying the banner for Storm Cat/Giant's Causeway, and his better foals are probably still on their way as I think he got better mares recently. He's on the upswing, and losing him now would cut that sireline at its knees.
Even though he's not at stud yet I agree with Flanders saying Midnight Bourbon. Irap was a huge loss imo and was maybe the best stud prospect that Tiznow had (he was a Tiznow son that was a half to Speightstown). The last chance Tiznow has (and the Man O' War line) of producing a big sire is Midnight Bourbon.
I think losing Gun Runner would be tough, not necessarily because his sireline is rare, but because he had such a stellar first foal crop and he would leave behind a lot of "what if"s. I also think that he has a great female family.
Scat Daddy is definitely one that I consider a huge loss. Can you image where he would be if he were still alive? Siring a triple crown winner and Ascot winners?
Into Mischief has been an incredible force in the landscape of Thoroughbred breeding, and his loss would definitely be felt. He has so many sons at stud though, and his half brother Mendelssohn at stud as well, that his impact will continue to be felt for a long time.

[Flanders]

I agree with Flanders, I had to think about this because it could be taken a few different ways. Tapit is amazing, but would it make that big of an "impact" if he passed? He's got sons and grandsons at stud, he's made his impact.
I would consider Not This Time. Storm Cat was a hugely popular sire in the early 2000s but failed to be a sire of sires except for one - Giant's Causeway. Giant's Causeway was also a great sire, but also failed to be a sire of sires (maybe Bricks and Mortar will do something in Japan)... except for Not This Time. IMO Not This Time is carrying the banner for Storm Cat/Giant's Causeway, and his better foals are probably still on their way as I think he got better mares recently. He's on the upswing, and losing him now would cut that sireline at its knees.

Storm Cat lines also carry on strong through Into Mischief, his sons and the Scat Daddy's.

[Falinadin]

Crap, you're right, I always forget Harlan is by Storm Cat.
Well, then I guess Not This Time will rep Giant's Causeway

[Psychotic Parakeet]

I would say the loss of a tail male stallion line that is not commonly found could have a major impact in more ways than one. There are plenty of male descendants from the Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, A. P. Indy, and Storm Cat lines to ensure those lines won't die out. Stallions like Include, who was recently pensioned, his pedigree is a total outcross of any of the other stallions I listed. That is a hard hit. It may not be apparent at the moment, but it will be when the USA market is oversaturated with the usual.

[SukiSatsuki]

I'm not sure many stallions are truly irreplaceable, but loosing Into Mischief tomorrow would feel a lot like loosing Scat Daddy, I think. Especially since he's officially sired the last two Kentucky Derby winners. He's also one of the biggest stallions to not have an obvious heir since all of his sons are so young, although Authentic will be given every chance to succeed.

Medaglia d'Oro is another one that doesn't have a definite heir right now and he would certainly be a loss.

I don't care how many sons he has at stud, Curlin might leave the biggest void.

with the amount of mares Into Mischief is given every year, i'm really afraid his heart won't handle many more seasons. and i don't think Spendthrift plans on slowing down. sad thing to say of course but it's really difficult for a stallion's heart to handle over 215 mares every year. got to 296 at one point. given how important he is to the breed i wish they would be more respectful of his limits. Tapit's book is always shorter and it's not because of lack of interest. i honestly don't understand why we talk so much about abuse in the racetrack and so little about abuse in the breeding shed

ESPECIALLY since the horses are overweight! Why do they fatten the horses up so much look at japans horses they arent fat. Youd think the farms would have a handle on their weight since laminitus is such a killer

[brunanas]

I'm not sure many stallions are truly irreplaceable, but loosing Into Mischief tomorrow would feel a lot like loosing Scat Daddy, I think. Especially since he's officially sired the last two Kentucky Derby winners. He's also one of the biggest stallions to not have an obvious heir since all of his sons are so young, although Authentic will be given every chance to succeed.

Medaglia d'Oro is another one that doesn't have a definite heir right now and he would certainly be a loss.

I don't care how many sons he has at stud, Curlin might leave the biggest void.

with the amount of mares Into Mischief is given every year, i'm really afraid his heart won't handle many more seasons. and i don't think Spendthrift plans on slowing down. sad thing to say of course but it's really difficult for a stallion's heart to handle over 215 mares every year. got to 296 at one point. given how important he is to the breed i wish they would be more respectful of his limits. Tapit's book is always shorter and it's not because of lack of interest. i honestly don't understand why we talk so much about abuse in the racetrack and so little about abuse in the breeding shed

ESPECIALLY since the horses are overweight! Why do they fatten the horses up so much look at japans horses they arent fat. Youd think the farms would have a handle on their weight since laminitus is such a killer

and have you ever seen Into Mischief's knees? pains me just to think about how bad it hurts to land on that 3x a day. will never hide my very strong dislike for Spendthrift. money talks...

[Gemini]

I would say the loss of a tail male stallion line that is not commonly found could have a major impact in more ways than one. There are plenty of male descendants from the Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, A. P. Indy, and Storm Cat lines to ensure those lines won't die out. Stallions like Include, who was recently pensioned, his pedigree is a total outcross of any of the other stallions I listed. That is a hard hit. It may not be apparent at the moment, but it will be when the USA market is oversaturated with the usual.

Agree 100%

I also worry about the Holy Bull sireline, as Mucho Macho Man is the only stallion (that I can think of right now) who's producing on a regular basis...and even he isn't exactly making breeders rush to him.

I had a brief moment of hope that Skipshot might take off when Vasilika was running, but that didn't happen.

Other lines that are dwindling or almost gone in the U.S.: Blushing Groom, His Majesty, and Caro.

[Honor Code]

I also worry about the Holy Bull sireline, as Mucho Macho Man is the only stallion (that I can think of right now) who's producing on a regular basis...and even he isn't exactly making breeders rush to him.

I had a brief moment of hope that Skipshot might take off when Vasilika was running, but that didn't happen.

Other lines that are dwindling or almost gone in the U.S.: Blushing Groom, His Majesty, and Caro.

I, too, have a weak spot for those tail lines that are pretty much gone.

Skipshot is almost the end of the Damascus line stallion that I know of.
Cozzene is the only remaining Caro line stallion I know of
Include had no heirs for Blushing Groom line.
Uncle Mo/Tiznow are the last of the In Reality line-no heir apparent.
More Than Ready/Yoshida are the only active Halo stallions I know in the US. Also without any obvious heir apparent.
Mucho Macho Man may actually manage to continue the line.

Princequillo line is dead, any others I've missed?

[KatieK101]

I also worry about the Holy Bull sireline, as Mucho Macho Man is the only stallion (that I can think of right now) who's producing on a regular basis...and even he isn't exactly making breeders rush to him.

I had a brief moment of hope that Skipshot might take off when Vasilika was running, but that didn't happen.

Other lines that are dwindling or almost gone in the U.S.: Blushing Groom, His Majesty, and Caro.

I, too, have a weak spot for those tail lines that are pretty much gone.

Skipshot is almost the end of the Damascus line stallion that I know of.
Cozzene is the only remaining Caro line stallion I know of
Include had no heirs for Blushing Groom line.
Uncle Mo/Tiznow are the last of the In Reality line-no heir apparent.
More Than Ready/Yoshida are the only active Halo stallions I know in the US. Also without any obvious heir apparent.
Mucho Macho Man may actually manage to continue the line.

Princequillo line is dead, any others I've missed?

I would say Nyquist is proving to be a heir for Uncle Mo although it’s still early. Same with More Than Ready and, to a much lesser extent, Daredevil.

[Flanders]

I also worry about the Holy Bull sireline, as Mucho Macho Man is the only stallion (that I can think of right now) who's producing on a regular basis...and even he isn't exactly making breeders rush to him.

I had a brief moment of hope that Skipshot might take off when Vasilika was running, but that didn't happen.

Other lines that are dwindling or almost gone in the U.S.: Blushing Groom, His Majesty, and Caro.

I, too, have a weak spot for those tail lines that are pretty much gone.

Skipshot is almost the end of the Damascus line stallion that I know of.
Cozzene is the only remaining Caro line stallion I know of
Include had no heirs for Blushing Groom line.
Uncle Mo/Tiznow are the last of the In Reality line-no heir apparent.
More Than Ready/Yoshida are the only active Halo stallions I know in the US. Also without any obvious heir apparent.
Mucho Macho Man may actually manage to continue the line.

Princequillo line is dead, any others I've missed?

I forgot Skipshot was even Damascus line, I thought it was already gone from Kentucky. Its a shame cause no one uses him. He was only bred to 5 mares last year and they even tried to sell him on in the 2021 Fasig Tipton February mixed sale but he RNA'd at 37k.
Uncle Mo is Caro line, not sure who you meant cause Cozzene died in 2008, maybe his son Mizzen Mast who was just pensioned?
Include isn't Blushing Groom, he is Broad Brush/Ack Ack back to Colin/Domino. One of the rare male lines that doesn't go back to Phalaris. Unless there is some stallion in some country that I don't know about this sire line is gone with Include.
Blushing Groom, unless I'm forgetting someone, the last 2 I can remember in the Kentucky were Animal Kingdom and his sire Leriondesanimaux, both whom were sold on. Animal Kingdom is now in Japan, Leriondesanimaux died in 2016. Le Havre was carrying this line is Europe but was just pensioned, hopefully one of his sons can step up but most of his best sons to race were gelded.
The In Reality line is in trouble, Tiznow isn't the only representative in the US but Bal A Bali isn't getting a lot of support. The line is also barely hanging on in Europe with Dream Ahead (Diktat/Warning/Known Fact/In Reality). So maybe one of his sons can step up, though most have been gelded.
More Than Ready has a hope in the US with Daredevil, there are some younger horses at stud, like you said Yoshida, Win Win Win went to stud last year in Florida. Blame, Point of Entry and Temple City are from the Roberto branch of Hail To Reason. The Hail To Reason through Halo and Kris S. are safe in Japan. The Dynaformer branch is in trouble.
Mucho Macho Man is another that isn't used a lot. Hopefully he can carry the line on but his best son went to, I'm assuming Saudi Arabia, since its never been confirmed.

Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone that is carrying on the Ribot line. Pleasantly Perfect, who was sold on, and Tiago who died young are the last 2 I think of.

[SukiSatsuki]

I also worry about the Holy Bull sireline, as Mucho Macho Man is the only stallion (that I can think of right now) who's producing on a regular basis...and even he isn't exactly making breeders rush to him.

I had a brief moment of hope that Skipshot might take off when Vasilika was running, but that didn't happen.

Other lines that are dwindling or almost gone in the U.S.: Blushing Groom, His Majesty, and Caro.

I, too, have a weak spot for those tail lines that are pretty much gone.

Skipshot is almost the end of the Damascus line stallion that I know of.
Cozzene is the only remaining Caro line stallion I know of
Include had no heirs for Blushing Groom line.
Uncle Mo/Tiznow are the last of the In Reality line-no heir apparent.
More Than Ready/Yoshida are the only active Halo stallions I know in the US. Also without any obvious heir apparent.
Mucho Macho Man may actually manage to continue the line.

Princequillo line is dead, any others I've missed?

I forgot Skipshot was even Damascus line, I thought it was already gone from Kentucky. Its a shame cause no one uses him. He was only bred to 5 mares last year and they even tried to sell him on in the 2021 Fasig Tipton February mixed sale but he RNA'd at 37k.
Uncle Mo is Caro line, not sure who you meant cause Cozzene died in 2008, maybe his son Mizzen Mast who was just pensioned?
Include isn't Blushing Groom, he is Broad Brush/Ack Ack back to Colin/Domino. One of the rare male lines that doesn't go back to Phalaris. Unless there is some stallion in some country that I don't know about this sire line is gone with Include.
Blushing Groom, unless I'm forgetting someone, the last 2 I can remember in the Kentucky were Animal Kingdom and his sire Leriondesanimaux, both whom were sold on. Animal Kingdom is now in Japan, Leriondesanimaux died in 2016. Le Havre was carrying this line is Europe but was just pensioned, hopefully one of his sons can step up but most of his best sons to race were gelded.
The In Reality line is in trouble, Tiznow isn't the only representative in the US but Bal A Bali isn't getting a lot of support. The line is also barely hanging on in Europe with Dream Ahead (Diktat/Warning/Known Fact/In Reality). So maybe one of his sons can step up, though most have been gelded.
More Than Ready has a hope in the US with Daredevil, there are some younger horses at stud, like you said Yoshida, Win Win Win went to stud last year in Florida. Blame, Point of Entry and Temple City are from the Roberto branch of Hail To Reason. The Hail To Reason through Halo and Kris S. are safe in Japan. The Dynaformer branch is in trouble.
Mucho Macho Man is another that isn't used a lot. Hopefully he can carry the line on but his best son went to, I'm assuming Saudi Arabia, since its never been confirmed.

Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone that is carrying on the Ribot line. Pleasantly Perfect, who was sold on, and Tiago who died young are the last 2 I think of.

Isnt the man o war line basically dead