Colors

Miesque1973 · Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:52 pm

Any help would be appreciated. These horses' coat colors have eluded me for years now. I suspect most are pretty much hopeless, but no harm in putting them out there.

COLOR UNKNOWN

Amistad(PAN), f. 1996 (Screen King(USA)-Sunup(USA), by Grey Dawn(FR)
Ana Grace(PAN), f. 1995 (Screen King(USA)-Cabaletta(USA), by Verbatim(USA)
Arach(DEN), c. 1933 (General Buller(ITY)-Arachne's Daughter(GB), by Pelops(GB)
Brave Act, f. 2004 (Replay(GB)-Coxswain(GB), by Shirley Heights(GB)
Brow Beater(BAR), c. 1973 (No Comment(IRE)-Berry Brow(GB), by Flush Royal(FR)
Calvados(TUR), c. 1973 (Best Song(GB)-Remy Martin(GB), by Migoli(GB)
Cancionera(PR), f. 1943 (Colito(USA)-Coplera(USA) (formerly Pippa), by Royal Minstrel(GB)
Cautela(PR), f. 1948 (Best Irish(USA)-Jaltar(USA), by Kantar(FR)
Confianza(PR), c. 1947 (St. Brideaux(USA)-Jaltar(USA), by Kantar(FR)
Curacao(HOL), c. 1898 (Dorn(GER)-Ribaube(FR), by Peregrine(GB)
Ernani(POL), f. 1867 (Percy(GB)-Bastrazitsa(POL), by Biron(GER)
Godze(TUR), f. 1974 (Karoo(GB)-Aydan(TUR), by Alopecio(GB)
Homespun(BAR), f. 1943 (O T C(GB)-Celanese(BAR), by Silky(GB)
Icaros(TUR), c. 1955 (Wings of Song(GB)-Tourane(FR), by Djebel(FR)
Iduna(GDR), f. 1964 (Niederland(GER)-Ilona(GDR), by Arjaman(GER)
Imme(GDR), f. 1959 (Glueckspilz(GER)-Ilona(GER), by Arjaman(GER)
Kalium, c. 1954 (Karamont(BEL)-Poutzi(FR), by Palais Royal(FR)
Kvik(SWE), c. 1934 (Danseur du Roi(??)-Little Vic(GB), Lonawand(GB)
La Magdalena(SPA) (ex Heliopolis(SPA), f. 1923 (Billicock(GB)-La Glorieuse(FR), by Gorgos(GB)
Lina(CS), c. 1948 (Lionel(CS)-Sidney(GER), by Alchimist(GER)
Mine(TUR), f. 1961 (Guersillus(GB)-Widow Lady(GB), by Torbido(ITY)
Necker(UR), c. 1911 (Descreto(ARG)-Espiga de Oro(UR), by Fulminante(GB)
Nylon(BAR), c. 1942 by O T C(GB)-Celanese(BAR), by Silky(GB)
Orbetello(CHI), c. 1895 (Wanderer(GB)-Palta(CHI), by General Wilson(GB) LINEAGE UNKNOWN
Parador(DEN), c. 1939 (Gunnel(GB)-Carence(FR), by Kantar(FR)
Paulette(CHI), f. 1897 (Wanderer(GB)-Palta(CHI), by General Wilson(GB) LINEAGE UNKNOWN
Pilpilco(CHI), c. 1875 (Fanfarron(??)-Medora(??), by ??) FEMALE LINE IN PQ
Plataneros(CHI), c. 1955 (Star Shell(ARG)-Sayula(CHI), by Scots Guard(GB)
Postillon(CZE), c. 1931 (Ossian(GER)-Post Haste(GB), by William the Third(GB)
Quemante(URU), f. 1976 (Snow Cry(URU)-La Rinconada(URU), by Rigoberto(URU)
Rascal(PER), c. 1969 (Signal Rocket(GB)-Vayesmere(GB), by Sound Track(GB)
Somerset Lad(??), c. 1935 (Esbern(??)-Somerset Lassie(GB), by Quantock(GB)
Suomi(DEN), c. 1941 (Home Rule(GB)-Arachne's Daughter(GB), by Pelops(GB)
Wise Child(KEN), f. 1922 (Wise Dove(GB)-Ask Papa(GB), by Matchmaker(GB) -- her win in the Kenya S. Leger is featured in Beryl Markham's "Into the West", if I recall. The mare went on to produce two classic winners in Kenya.
Zorra Viejo(URU), c. 1925 (Yago(ARG)-Zorra Blanca(URU), by Shah Jean(GB)

I've got a number of unknown pedigrees to look for, many from Kenya, but I'll post them all later.

~Miesque

Oasis Dream · Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:43 pm

Brave Act was a bay, according to what I've seen. There's a photo here.
https://www.dawn.com/news/291970/brave- ... stan-derby
Second article confirmation that the Brave Act listed above is the same.
https://beta.dawn.com/news/291970/brave ... stan-derby
According to TimeForm, Iduna (GER) was a bay mare.

Miesque1973 · Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:29 am

Thank you.

~Miesque

Oasis Dream · Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:22 pm

Gah! Iduna was a CHESTNUT mare. I think I may have left bay as one of the other names I was looking up and deleting. I'm sorry! I still have the screenshot, but I suck at posting things and don't know how.
Apart from that, you're welcome! I will keep looking, but I looked to 4 am last night and didn't have a whole lot of luck.

PlanetRock · Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:13 pm

I’m actually friends with the person that owns the first two Panamanian mares. He said Ana Grace is bay, and Amistad is dark bay.

Miesque1973 · Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:28 pm

Kewlness! Thank you both! It's nice to whittle off a few horses from the list. Just wait 'til I post the missing pedigrees list. It's a hoot.

But that will take more time to check over & find whatever I do have for each horse, and I've got Life Issues going on that are taking up a good bit of my time.

Pedigrees of horses from some South American countries and Eastern Europe/former Soviet block countries are difficult to say the least. Kenya, meanwhile, is just... don't get me started. I was glad to have gotten full lists of all the winners of each race, but some pedigrees are truly elusive. There's even a Volume X of the Kenya Stud Book online and some of the horses are listed but without a great deal of pedigree info that would connect to lines I can find.

Meanwhile I'm slogging through tracing female lines of the mares in my 'Dams of 2 or more classic winners' project. I'm up to family #23 now and have miles to go (family #1 has scads of such mares, but family #9 is mind-boggling in its 'blue hen' output). It's still fun and interesting, tho. I take breaks from it, but will never really get tired of it.

~Miesque

Oasis Dream · Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:12 pm

Miesque, I know this doesn't pertain to colors, but it might help you with old pedigrees.
It's got a lot of them from the late 1800's/early 1900's from a dispersal of horses. I think it has Wise Child in it, or her family.
https://books.google.com/books?id=N00CA ... ed&f=false

Oasis Dream · Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:28 pm

According to Beryl Markham's book, Wise Child was a bay.

CorridorZ75 · Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:50 pm

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:28 pm Kewlness! Thank you both! It's nice to whittle off a few horses from the list. Just wait 'til I post the missing pedigrees list. It's a hoot. But that will take more time to check over & find whatever I do have for each horse, and I've got Life Issues going on that are taking up a good bit of my time.

Pedigrees of horses from some South American countries and Eastern Europe/former Soviet block countries are difficult to say the least. Kenya, meanwhile, is just... don't get me started. I was glad to have gotten full lists of all the winners of each race, but some pedigrees are truly elusive. There's even a Volume X of the Kenya Stud Book online and some of the horses are listed but without a great deal of pedigree info that would connect to lines I can find.

Meanwhile I'm slogging through tracing female lines of the mares in my 'Dams of 2 or more classic winners' project. I'm up to family #23 now and have miles to go (family #1 has scads of such mares, but family #9 is mind-boggling in its 'blue hen' output). It's still fun and interesting, tho. I take breaks from it, but will never really get tired of it.

~Miesque

You might want to go by haplotype on the tail female lines- alot of the supposed "different" female families are actually the same.

Oasis Dream · Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:05 pm

Homespun is listed as brown.
Nylon is listed as brown.

Miesque1973 · Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:04 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:50 pm You might want to go by haplotype on the tail female lines- alot of the supposed "different" female families are actually the same.

I'm generally making connections thru info at bloodlines.net.

~Miesque

Miesque1973 · Fri Oct 29, 2021 2:18 pm

Oasis Dream wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:05 pm Homespun is listed as brown.
Nylon is listed as brown.

Two more off the list!

I'm still slogging thru missing pedigrees. Some are totally unknown, and some have a bit of info. Some will likely never be found. Poor Matilda Jordan, for instance - dam of 3 Canadian Queen's Plate winners and her bottom pedigree is as of yet totally unknown. Unless I missed something.

Thanks,

Sherry

Miesque1973 · Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:21 pm

Oasis Dream wrote: ↑Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:12 pm Miesque, I know this doesn't pertain to colors, but it might help you with old pedigrees.
It's got a lot of them from the late 1800's/early 1900's from a dispersal of horses. I think it has Wise Child in it, or her family.
https://books.google.com/books?id=N00CA ... ed&f=false

I'm not sure if the Wise Child in that book is the same Wild Child from Kenya. I found her as being a descendant of Pawn (1808 by Trumpator, family #1), and the Wise Child in the book shows her tracking back to the taproot mare(s) of family #9. Obviously I could be utterly wrong about that. But Wise Child produced two classic winners in Kenya in her own right. But I'm looking through that online book. I'm going to see if Google books brings up anything else, too. You never know what might be out there.

~Miesque