The rise of Sunday Silence

[Curtis]

Thanks for that, RR. I've read too many times that the main reason US breeders avoided SS was poor conformation. That is pretty clearly not true.

People tend to repeat stuff they often know little about. Sunday could not have been the great racehorse he was if his overall conformation was as bad as some claim. Simple mechanics wouldn't have supported it.

I believe, although can never prove, that there were two main reasons why American breeders didn't have much interest in him. First is that he came from the fiery Hail to Reason sire line. The industry had transitioned to the commercial sales-driven model that has dominated ever since, and most buyers do not want to deal with horses who are difficult to handle. The second is the female side of his pedigree. His dam, Wishing Well, was a G2 stakes winner, but she didn't come into her own until age 4. She did win stakes at ages 4, 5, and 6. Buyers want horses who can win early. Also, her pedigree wasn't just unfashionable, it was obscure. She was by Understanding out of Mountain Flower by Montparnasse. I can just imagine 1990's buyers looking at that dam's pedigree page in a catalog and thinking, "Huh?!"

Sunday didn't have any of the popular, in-demand Mr. Prospector, Northern Dancer, Native Dancer, Secretariat, Buckpasser, etc., male or female lines in his pedigree. Not a drop. So off he was shipped to Japan and the rest is history.

I really wish Sunday Silence, and later on California Chrome, had been handled like Skywalker and started out in CA. They could have either proven themselves worthy of going to KY or just staying regional. Sunday Silence’s bottom side was pure CA as Wishing Well was bred by George Pope.

[BaroqueAgain1]

While I agree that Sunday deserved to be given the very best chance to succeed at stud somewhere here in the US, I'm pretty happy about the way it turned out.
If Sunday Silence had never gone to Japan, we would have never gotten to enjoy Deep Impact, Cesario, Orfevre or a hundred other excellent racehorses. His stallion career turned out to be rather spectacular.

[Curtis]

While I agree that Sunday deserved to be given the very best chance to succeed at stud somewhere here in the US, I'm pretty happy about the way it turned out.
If Sunday Silence had never gone to Japan, we would have never gotten to enjoy Deep Impact, Cesario, Orfevre or a hundred other excellent racehorses. His stallion career turned out to be rather spectacular.

Sure but what could he have done here? Should Skywalker have been sold to Japan? I sure would have missed watching Bertrando.

[CorridorZ75]

Well the good news is that California Chrome will have a crop or two that will basically be like he was standing in California based on that scheme they came up with for the some of the second and definitely the third crop. We will see how it goes. I do think his second and third books in US were more interestingly bred, if not necessarily better. I don't think he will suddenly become a hot sire commodity, at least in US, but inversely I do think he will end up getting at least one total star out of nowhere. That just seems how to be how it goes. Given his female family, it will almost certainly be via the distaff side of pedigrees where he is more likely to make a mark, if at all.

[Ridan_Remembered]

For those who want to make their own assessment of Sunday's conformation while he was in motion, here is the full video of the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic won by Sunday Silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF3V6KM0Gyc

[tachyon]

For those who want to make their own assessment of Sunday's conformation while he was in motion, here is the full video of the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic won by Sunday Silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF3V6KM0Gyc

Thanks for sharing the full version video!!
It was really enjoyable to watch the race footage.
''and it was Sunday Silence in a racing epic.''
An epic, indeed!

[Ridan_Remembered]

For those who want to make their own assessment of Sunday's conformation while he was in motion, here is the full video of the 1989 Breeders' Cup Classic won by Sunday Silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF3V6KM0Gyc

Thanks for sharing the full version video!!
It was really enjoyable to watch the race footage.
''and it was Sunday Silence in a racing epic.''
An epic, indeed!

You're most welcome, Tachyon. Sunday was truly a great racehorse in addition to being a breed-shaping sire. Nobody wanted him here in the country of his birth except those of us who loved him. I'm glad he went to Japan where he was appreciated, loved and had the opportunity to become a world-class sire.

[Mylute]

G1W Ivar (Agnes Gold) has been working steadily this year at The Thoroughbred Center in Lexington and yesterday worked 5F on dirt in 1:00.0. 2nd fastest at the distance.

[tachyon]

G1W Ivar (Agnes Gold) has been working steadily this year at The Thoroughbred Center in Lexington and yesterday worked 5F on dirt in 1:00.0. 2nd fastest at the distance.

Thanks for the update!!

Agnes Gold(JPN)(Sunday Silence) is doing really super in Brazil, DOMINATING Classic races recently.
He sired three graded winners yesterday including two G1 winners, one of whom completed the Triple Tiara undefeated!!!
I strongly hope that Ivar(BRZ) will improve his resume further this year to be able to find a good place at stud in the US!!


Janelle Monae(BRZ), 2017F. Agnes Gold(JPN) x Just Lucky(BRZ) by Spend A Buck(USA), won the G1 GP Zelia Gonzaga Peixoto de Castro, 2400m at Gavea on April 11th 2021, remaining undefeated with 4 wins from 4 starts.
Other Agnes Gold fillies Zarabatana(BRZ) and Non Merci(BRZ) completed the trifecta!!
Janelle Monae became the sixth Triple Tiara winner in Rio and the second filly in history to make it undefeated.


https://www.jcb.com.br/home/noticias/28 ... e-carioca/

-- replay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL47px-WjF8
1st. Janelle Monae (Agnes Gold) https://www.pedigreequery.com/janelle+monae
2nd. Zarabatana (Agnes Gold) https://www.pedigreequery.com/zarabatana2
3rd. Non Merci (Agnes Gold) https://www.pedigreequery.com/non+merci



Olympic Kremlin(BRZ), 2017C. Agnes Gold(JPN) x Sweet Lemonade(USA) by Lemon Drop Kid(USA), won the G1 GP Cruzeiro do Sul (Brazilian Derby), 2400m turf at Gavea, on April 11th 2021. 9-3-2-0.
Olympic Korchnoi(BRZ), another Agnes Gold colt, completed the exacta.


https://www.jcb.com.br/home/noticias/28 ... -do-derby/

-- replay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PadGzXySEIk
1st. Olympic Kremlin (Agnes Gold) https://www.pedigreequery.com/olympic+kremlin
2nd. Olympic Korchnoi (Agnes Gold) https://www.pedigreequery.com/olympic+korchnoi
3rd. Jackson Pollock (Kodiak Kowboy)

[tachyon]

2019 Japanese Oaks winner Loves Only You(JPN), 2016M. Deep Impact(JPN) x Loves Only Me(USA) by Storm Cat(USA), claimed her second G1 title in the QEII Cup at Sha Tin racecourse in Hong Kong under Vincent Ho on 25 April 2021 improving her record to 13-6-1-3. It was a 1-2-3-4 for Japan.




@HKJC

-- replay and results from HKJC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDLahQT-UzI
https://racing.hkjc.com/racing/informat ... T&RaceNo=8
1st. Loves Only You(JPN) [Deep Impact(JPN) x Loves Only You(USA) by Storm Cat(USA)] M5. 2:01.22
2nd. Glory Vase(JPN) [Deep Impact(JPN) x Mejiro Tsubone(JPN) by Swept Overboard(USA)] H6. 3/4
3rd. Daring Tact(JPN) [Epiphaneia(JPN) x Daring Bird(JPN) by King Kamehameha(JPN)] F4. 1-1/4
4th. Kiseki(JPN) H7. 2-3/4
5th. Exultant(IRE) G7. 3
6th. Glorious Dragon(IRE) G6. 3-3/4
7th. Time Warp(GB) G8. 5-1/2

Loves Only You(JPN)
https://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001221351/

[Mylute]

Ivar (Agnes Gold) makes his 2021 bow in the G1 Old Forester Turf Classic on Derby Day at Churchill Downs. He is 5-1. 1 1/8 miles on turf.

[Gemini]

Ivar (Agnes Gold) makes his 2021 bow in the G1 Old Forester Turf Classic on Derby Day at Churchill Downs. He is 5-1. 1 1/8 miles on turf.

Definitely looking forward to Ivar's race.

[tachyon]

Ivar (Agnes Gold) makes his 2021 bow in the G1 Old Forester Turf Classic on Derby Day at Churchill Downs. He is 5-1. 1 1/8 miles on turf.

Definitely looking forward to Ivar's race.

So I've got to wake up early in the morning.
This is the first time Ivar runs 9F.
Let's see if he can get the extra distance off a 6 month layoff.
Go Ivar Go!!!

[Gemini]

Thanks for that, RR. I've read too many times that the main reason US breeders avoided SS was poor conformation. That is pretty clearly not true.

People tend to repeat stuff they often know little about. Sunday could not have been the great racehorse he was if his overall conformation was as bad as some claim. Simple mechanics wouldn't have supported it.

I believe, although can never prove, that there were two main reasons why American breeders didn't have much interest in him. First is that he came from the fiery Hail to Reason sire line. The industry had transitioned to the commercial sales-driven model that has dominated ever since, and most buyers do not want to deal with horses who are difficult to handle. The second is the female side of his pedigree. His dam, Wishing Well, was a G2 stakes winner, but she didn't come into her own until age 4. She did win stakes at ages 4, 5, and 6. Buyers want horses who can win early. Also, her pedigree wasn't just unfashionable, it was obscure. She was by Understanding out of Mountain Flower by Montparnasse. I can just imagine 1990's buyers looking at that dam's pedigree page in a catalog and thinking, "Huh?!"

Sunday didn't have any of the popular, in-demand Mr. Prospector, Northern Dancer, Native Dancer, Secretariat, Buckpasser, etc., male or female lines in his pedigree. Not a drop. So off he was shipped to Japan and the rest is history.

I have two different books about Sunday Silence. Both of them quote Tom Tatham (blood stock agent who put him on the market) and Charles Whittingham about SS's unfavorable confirmation. I am not using it as a knock against the horse at all-- he's the reason I fell in love with horse racing at age six.

There are many examples of horses with less than ideal body structures who became champions. Wasn't Assault the "Club Footed Comet"? Then there was Equipoise who had terrible feet...and many others.

[Mylute]

I've seen talk about Curlin having quite a few conformation faults.

[Missbeholder]

I've encountered comments about Spectacular Bid saying that he wasn't going to win any beauty contests. I don't know if that's true, because when I saw him run at Santa Anita 41 years ago, I probably didn't know one end from the other.

I do know that there's a stalwart bunch out there that still insist that Buddy Delp was right! That flawed mechanics, if he had them, didn't keep him from greatness!!

[CorridorZ75]

I've encountered comments about Spectacular Bid saying that he wasn't going to win any beauty contests. I don't know if that's true, because when I saw him run at Santa Anita 41 years ago, I probably didn't know one end from the other.

I do know that there's a stalwart bunch out there that still insist that Buddy Delp was right! That flawed mechanics, if he had them, didn't keep him from greatness!!

I am going to say that one does not run 10f in 1:57 and change with flawed mechanics. Conformation at a stand still and running biomechanics can be two very different things depending how things come together at speed.

[Ridan_Remembered]

I've encountered comments about Spectacular Bid saying that he wasn't going to win any beauty contests. I don't know if that's true, because when I saw him run at Santa Anita 41 years ago, I probably didn't know one end from the other.

I do know that there's a stalwart bunch out there that still insist that Buddy Delp was right! That flawed mechanics, if he had them, didn't keep him from greatness!!

I am going to say that one does not run 10f in 1:57 and change with flawed mechanics. Conformation at a stand still and running biomechanics can be two very different things depending how things come together at speed.

Exactly. To some extent, good conformation is in the eye of the beholder. Every horse has at least one conformation fault. Even Secretariat was said to have a croup that sloped a bit too much although his conformation was about as close to perfect as it's possible to get. Man o' War carried his head very high, which many people consider to be a fault. But if one is looking for a racehorse, you're not going to get better than Secretariat and Man o'War.

[Mylute]

Vezpa (Agnes Gold x La Francaise, by Nedawi) won Race 6 at Churchill Downs, a 1 mile turf allowance, on April 27.

[tachyon]

Vezpa (Agnes Gold x La Francaise, by Nedawi) won Race 6 at Churchill Downs, a 1 mile turf allowance, on April 27.

Thanks for the heads-up! She was a 32 to 1!!
Like Ivar, this ex-Uruguayan is trained by Paulo Lobo.