Stallion News

[Slinky_Malinky]

I hope this isn't as disjointed as it probably is. I'm very tired and have tried to fix this post like 10 times.

Paynter is a Winstar stallion. I'm guessing you meant Oxbow since they have pretty much identical pedigrees.

I feel they have to have a MASSIVE broodmare band to just have mares to breed to all their stallions. So yeah the quality isn't great on a lot of them and with their intentions to rehome or whatever all those stallions, maybe that is why they are culling the broodmare band down a lot. Probably also the poorer quality weanlings and yearlings.

The thing is, while the horses (yearlings in 2019, and weanlings, yearlings, mares in 2020), that they have sold have almost all sold for atrociously low amounts, they have to be doing something right or they are just churning out an absolute mountain of horses each year. They are on track to win the title for Leading Breeder by money earned for the 2nd year in a row and their win and WPS %s are pretty much average/low average of the other breeders in the top 10.

You're right, Oxbow.

And yes, I agree that they've absolutely flooded the zone with horses, so they're leading breeder on the backs of an army of sprinting claimers.

[Northport]

I hope this isn't as disjointed as it probably is. I'm very tired and have tried to fix this post like 10 times.

Paynter is a Winstar stallion. I'm guessing you meant Oxbow since they have pretty much identical pedigrees.

I feel they have to have a MASSIVE broodmare band to just have mares to breed to all their stallions. So yeah the quality isn't great on a lot of them and with their intentions to rehome or whatever all those stallions, maybe that is why they are culling the broodmare band down a lot. Probably also the poorer quality weanlings and yearlings.

The thing is, while the horses (yearlings in 2019, and weanlings, yearlings, mares in 2020), that they have sold have almost all sold for atrociously low amounts, they have to be doing something right or they are just churning out an absolute mountain of horses each year. They are on track to win the title for Leading Breeder by money earned for the 2nd year in a row and their win and WPS %s are pretty much average/low average of the other breeders in the top 10.

You're right, Oxbow.

And yes, I agree that they've absolutely flooded the zone with horses, so they're leading breeder on the backs of an army of sprinting claimers.

That's how Adena Springs seemed to do it in the mid-late 2000s and it won them plenty of awards. I remember at one point they had something like 700 broodmares between Kentucky, Florida, and Ontario (though they only came to Ontario during the foaling season)

[Flanders]

I hope this isn't as disjointed as it probably is. I'm very tired and have tried to fix this post like 10 times.

Paynter is a Winstar stallion. I'm guessing you meant Oxbow since they have pretty much identical pedigrees.

I feel they have to have a MASSIVE broodmare band to just have mares to breed to all their stallions. So yeah the quality isn't great on a lot of them and with their intentions to rehome or whatever all those stallions, maybe that is why they are culling the broodmare band down a lot. Probably also the poorer quality weanlings and yearlings.

The thing is, while the horses (yearlings in 2019, and weanlings, yearlings, mares in 2020), that they have sold have almost all sold for atrociously low amounts, they have to be doing something right or they are just churning out an absolute mountain of horses each year. They are on track to win the title for Leading Breeder by money earned for the 2nd year in a row and their win and WPS %s are pretty much average/low average of the other breeders in the top 10.

You're right, Oxbow.

And yes, I agree that they've absolutely flooded the zone with horses, so they're leading breeder on the backs of an army of sprinting claimers.

That's how Adena Springs seemed to do it in the mid-late 2000s and it won them plenty of awards. I remember at one point they had something like 700 broodmares between Kentucky, Florida, and Ontario (though they only came to Ontario during the foaling season)

I kind of forgot about that. I remember at a point, one of the sales companies just had a book devoted to the Adena mares for sell each year. They were sold in foal with an option to get a free breeding to certain stallions.

[Northport]

You're right, Oxbow.

And yes, I agree that they've absolutely flooded the zone with horses, so they're leading breeder on the backs of an army of sprinting claimers.

That's how Adena Springs seemed to do it in the mid-late 2000s and it won them plenty of awards. I remember at one point they had something like 700 broodmares between Kentucky, Florida, and Ontario (though they only came to Ontario during the foaling season)

I kind of forgot about that. I remember at a point, one of the sales companies just had a book devoted to the Adena mares for sell each year. They were sold in foal with an option to get a free breeding to certain stallions.

They also hosted their own 2 y/o in training sale at their Ocala farm each March. It was around 2009-2010 that they did an internal audit of the quality of mares they were breeding and the resulting (low quality) progeny and thence began their major cull, I think they're down to less than 100 mares now, and still dwindling.

[Flanders]

It’s more than just Lentenor and Musketier—Paynter, Grey Swallow, Behest, and Snapy Halo are all in that sale, as are mix of 11 yearlings, weaklings, and mares.

That’s either a big cull or a partial dispersal. That they’re in a digital auction rather than the big sale next month says cull.

Musketier should have been sold as a polo stallion years ago. I suspect Snapy Halo will go back to Argentina.

It's not Paynter. It's Zayat's share in Paynter being auctioned as part of the ongoing resolution of debts.

The 2% interest sold for 11k. His stud fee is 7.5k, you would think the share was worth a little more than that. He covered 71 mares in 2020 at a 10k stud fee and his stud fee was lowered to 7.5k for 2021. But he also had an okay year as a stallion in 2020. He is currently in 19th on the General Sires list, with 8 SWs, 3 GSWs, including MG1SW/BC Dirt Mile winner Knicks Go who set 2 NTRs at Keeneland. Saying all that I still don't think he'll make it in Kentucky long tern unless he can come up with some more big runners but its still kind of shocking to see the 11k figure. It doesn't happen often that shares of stallions come up at auction. The last I remember was when 20% interest in Curlin sold for 6.2 million to Hill N Dale and that was a sealed bidding not an auction. I seem to recall shares/covers in stallions selling at the November sales a lot of years in the mid to late 90s but there are stallion service companies that handle that now.

[Northport]

It’s more than just Lentenor and Musketier—Paynter, Grey Swallow, Behest, and Snapy Halo are all in that sale, as are mix of 11 yearlings, weaklings, and mares.

That’s either a big cull or a partial dispersal. That they’re in a digital auction rather than the big sale next month says cull.

Musketier should have been sold as a polo stallion years ago. I suspect Snapy Halo will go back to Argentina.

It's not Paynter. It's Zayat's share in Paynter being auctioned as part of the ongoing resolution of debts.

The 2% interest sold for 11k. His stud fee is 7.5k, you would think the share was worth a little more than that. He covered 71 mares in 2020 at a 10k stud fee and his stud fee was lowered to 7.5k for 2021. But he also had an okay year as a stallion in 2020. He is currently in 19th on the General Sires list, with 8 SWs, 3 GSWs, including MG1SW/BC Dirt Mile winner Knicks Go who set 2 NTRs at Keeneland. Saying all that I still don't think he'll make it in Kentucky long tern unless he can come up with some more big runners but its still kind of shocking to see the 11k figure. It doesn't happen often that shares of stallions come up at auction. The last I remember was when 20% interest in Curlin sold for 6.2 million to Hill N Dale and that was a sealed bidding not an auction. I seem to recall shares/covers in stallions selling at the November sales a lot of years in the mid to late 90s but there are stallion service companies that handle that now.

I can tell you at least one other person was hoping it would make more than $11,000.

Ol' Ahmed Zayat's sitting at home like

[Summer Bird]

Awesome Again passed suddenly today at Old Friends. RIP to a great stallion

[Green Desert]

I heard about this yesterday, and was so upset. I know that Old Friends does great work, truly they do.
It just seemed to me that at the ripe old age of 26, he had more than earned his retirement at the farm that he helped put on the map. II remember an article in which the stallion manager said when it was time for him to retire, they'd simply spoil him like the king he was.
Instead, he was moved to old Friends in October, and by December, he's passed.

[Mylute]

I dont think it's fair to blame OF. The changing seasons are hard on the elderly of anything, especially winter, and AA was at an age where he could be OK and hospitalized the next.

[Northport]

TDN did an episode on Awesome Again this summer, highlighting how Adena Springs was his home and he'd had the same groom for over 20 years, and they were excited for him to live out his days there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfNYjr5qfek

I've said it a million times, Old Friends is a good organization with a noble mission, but moving these old stallions from homes they have known, with immaculate facilities, care, and a schedule they know... to living in entirely different conditions (sometimes worse in terms of paddock size/maintenance, etc), surrounded by new horses and handlers. It serves the minds and egos of humans more than the horses. Horses can pass away for any number of reasons incredibly suddenly, but I just feel like connections throw in a huge factor that they really can control every time they decide to move a pensioner there.

End of an era for Adena Springs.

[Flanders]

End of an era for Adena Springs.

Adena's era was done the second they got rid of the stallions.

[Summer Bird]

Now Tapizar has been euthanized due to a stall accident

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/tapizar-dies/

[TwilightTear]

Every time you think 2020 can't get worse....

[Slewfan2]

Oh no, poor Tapizar - I just saw this on Twitter. He was so young...poor baby

[Ziggypop]

Now Tapizar has been euthanized due to a stall accident

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/tapizar-dies/

WTH. Horrible year. And as stated above, shipping these old boys off site until the end of their lives is awful.

[Slinky_Malinky]

The 2% interest sold for 11k. His stud fee is 7.5k, you would think the share was worth a little more than that. He covered 71 mares in 2020 at a 10k stud fee and his stud fee was lowered to 7.5k for 2021. But he also had an okay year as a stallion in 2020. He is currently in 19th on the General Sires list, with 8 SWs, 3 GSWs, including MG1SW/BC Dirt Mile winner Knicks Go who set 2 NTRs at Keeneland. Saying all that I still don't think he'll make it in Kentucky long tern unless he can come up with some more big runners but its still kind of shocking to see the 11k figure. It doesn't happen often that shares of stallions come up at auction. The last I remember was when 20% interest in Curlin sold for 6.2 million to Hill N Dale and that was a sealed bidding not an auction. I seem to recall shares/covers in stallions selling at the November sales a lot of years in the mid to late 90s but there are stallion service companies that handle that now.

I think that share price is pretty much spot on. A 2% interest of 11k implies full value of $550,000 (+/- 10%). This year he bred 71 mares. If you assume that he saw 50 outside mares (shareholder mares don't pay a fee) at his 2020 stud fee of $10,000, then he brought in revenue of $500,000.

If he breeds 60 outside mares at an average fee of $6500 (allowing for negotiation) in 2021 and 45 outside mares at an average fee paid of $3500 in 2022 (listed fee $5000), which is a reasonable estimate of both mares and fee, that's $547,000 over two years and that's enough for the new shareholder to recoup the initial investment.

[Flanders]

The 2% interest sold for 11k. His stud fee is 7.5k, you would think the share was worth a little more than that. He covered 71 mares in 2020 at a 10k stud fee and his stud fee was lowered to 7.5k for 2021. But he also had an okay year as a stallion in 2020. He is currently in 19th on the General Sires list, with 8 SWs, 3 GSWs, including MG1SW/BC Dirt Mile winner Knicks Go who set 2 NTRs at Keeneland. Saying all that I still don't think he'll make it in Kentucky long tern unless he can come up with some more big runners but its still kind of shocking to see the 11k figure. It doesn't happen often that shares of stallions come up at auction. The last I remember was when 20% interest in Curlin sold for 6.2 million to Hill N Dale and that was a sealed bidding not an auction. I seem to recall shares/covers in stallions selling at the November sales a lot of years in the mid to late 90s but there are stallion service companies that handle that now.

I think that share price is pretty much spot on. A 2% interest of 11k implies full value of $550,000 (+/- 10%). This year he bred 71 mares. If you assume that he saw 50 outside mares (shareholder mares don't pay a fee) at his 2020 stud fee of $10,000, then he brought in revenue of $500,000.

If he breeds 60 outside mares at an average fee of $6500 (allowing for negotiation) in 2021 and 45 outside mares at an average fee paid of $3500 in 2022 (listed fee $5000), which is a reasonable estimate of both mares and fee, that's $547,000 over two years and that's enough for the new shareholder to recoup the initial investment.

Yeah I agree with you. I don't know why I found the number shocking. But I know the stallions that leave Kentucky sell for way less than a fan would imagine they do.

[Flanders]

So while I think Old Friends sometimes does pursue stallions that would be better off where they are, in Awesome Again's case, I think it was Adena that sought out Old Friends.

[Flanders]

Southern Phantom to stand at Mountain View Equine Hospital in Virginia. No stud fee given.

[Northport]

So while I think Old Friends sometimes does pursue stallions that would be better off where they are, in Awesome Again's case, I think it was Adena that sought out Old Friends.

Oh definitely. Frank has been a strong supporter of Old Friends for years, he loves sending his retired stallions there. Unfortunately that doesn't make it the right decision, Frank is not the one taking care of the horses day in and day out. And even if his staff objected, we all know that once he's got his mind on something, no one is going to convince him otherwise - see: giant pegasus statue.