Stallion News

Northport · Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:20 pm

Thanks for that additional info! I mean, I guess that’s a reasonable price? Share the upside is always a gamble, but if the horse ends up being a star... I guess we can ask the 5 or so people who got lifetimes right for Into Mischief via share upside in his first two years at stud if it was worth it.

CorridorZ75 · Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:33 pm

Since it came up that only a limited amount of Share The Upside breeding rights were available to Into Mischief, it make me wonder if it was a first come, first serve kind of thing or if breeders were screened and only ones that had plenty of decent enough mares were granted the spot.

Diver52 · Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:02 am

I've felt that Lookin at Lucky has been an underrated sire for quite a while. His yearlings don't sell well but he's had quite a few high quality runners recently (Accelerate) and his numbers are pretty solid compared to his stud fee. That said, I'd much rather Accelerate than Country House but $7500 in today's market is just high enough not to say "We have no faith in this horse."

Mylute · Sun Aug 16, 2020 10:48 am

Diver52 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:02 am I've felt that Lookin at Lucky has been an underrated sire for quite a while.His yearlings don't sell well but he's had quite a few high quality runners recently and his numbers are pretty solid compared to his stud fee.

He and Kitten's Joy would probably have a lot to talk about.

Mylute · Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 am

Saw on FB that Pharoah is now the #2 ranked sire of 3yo SWs, behind only Into Mischief.

Diver52 · Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:43 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 am Saw on FB that Pharoah is now the #2 ranked sire of 3yo SWs, behind only Into Mischief.

Singles and doubles, though.

CorridorZ75 · Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:01 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 am Saw on FB that Pharoah is now the #2 ranked sire of 3yo SWs, behind only Into Mischief.

Uncle Mo has as many BTW and more GSWs.

Altanbarr · Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:08 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:40 am Saw on FB that Pharoah is now the #2 ranked sire of 3yo SWs, behind only Into Mischief.

AP is number 10 on the list of second crop sires based on cumulative earnings for dirt runners in North America and Europe. His numbers are inflated by results in Japan and on turf.

[https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/t ... obcy=1#tot]

sweettalk · Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:58 pm

the post said he was #2 sire of 3yr old SW, not "3yr old dirt SW in NA and EU". the japan comment i'll agree w, those purses throw it off, but i feel like we're looking at specifics and splitting hairs like we WANT him to do/look bad. reminds me of why i took a break from here. looks like i need another one.
at least if he turns out to be a flop i have a hard time believing he'd be kicked out of the US permanently as a stud.

Gemini · Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:17 pm

sweettalk wrote: ↑Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:58 pm the post said he was #2 sire of 3yr old SW, not "3yr old dirt SW in NA and EU".

Which is also funny because this time last year people were saying AP was "only" a turf sire.

Northport · Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:30 pm

John Magnier is all in on Justify.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/b ... ade/447290

In the virtual parade for Coolmore Australia, Magnier is interviewed in which he says

"You could be talking about he could be a Northern Dancer or he could be a Sunday Silence, he could be the next big thing. The way we look at stallions, if you take [Bull] Hancock’s law, which we often apply to stallions, he fulfils all the criteria there."

Obviously the man needs to hype the hell out of this horse, but it affirms that they seem to be all in on Justify more than they were for American Pharoah, at least when it comes to sending him dozens of their top mares.

mariasmon · Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:32 pm

Northport wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:30 pm John Magnier is all in on Justify.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/b ... ade/447290

In the virtual parade for Coolmore Australia, Magnier is interviewed in which he says

"You could be talking about he could be a Northern Dancer or he could be a Sunday Silence, he could be the next big thing. The way we look at stallions, if you take [Bull] Hancock’s law, which we often apply to stallions, he fulfils all the criteria there."
Obviously the man needs to hype the hell out of this horse, but it affirms that they seem to be all in on Justify more than they were for American Pharoah, at least when it comes to sending him dozens of their top mares.

I know. I don't really get it, either.

Mylute · Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:19 pm

Because Scat Daddy

Although again, I would sooner spend the money on Mendelssohn.

CorridorZ75 · Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:35 pm

Watching the virtual stallion show, and I can't help but smirk at them glossing over his lack of two year old starts by saying, oh the trainers thought he was good, but he just didn't make it to the races. Followed soon after by a snide remark about they would have bought him as a yearling except they were nixed by "the learned vets". Well, unlike some other horses with conformational defects, this one proved to have an inability to stay sound when racing. Hell, he wasn't sound after the Ky Derby. Not to mention all the while they are talking, he is parading around wearing some serious footwear on the fores, especially for a stallion... Big body on crap feet is usually not a good combination.

Equipoise · Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:29 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:35 pm Watching the virtual stallion show, and I can't help but smirk at them glossing over his lack of two year old starts by saying, oh the trainers thought he was good, but he just didn't make it to the races. Followed soon after by a snide remark about they would have bought him as a yearling except they were nixed by "the learned vets". Well, unlike some other horses with conformational defects, this one proved to have an inability to stay sound when racing. Hell, he wasn't sound after the Ky Derby. Not to mention all the while they are talking, he is parading around wearing some serious footwear on the fores, especially for a stallion... Big body on crap feet is usually not a good combination.

Exactly, who are they trying to kid? Maybe there isn’t much market enthusiasm for his upcoming book and they’re trying to hype it up? I wish they’d spend a fraction of that hype on Mendelssohn.

Northport · Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:27 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:35 pm Watching the virtual stallion show, and I can't help but smirk at them glossing over his lack of two year old starts by saying, oh the trainers thought he was good, but he just didn't make it to the races. Followed soon after by a snide remark about they would have bought him as a yearling except they were nixed by "the learned vets". Well, unlike some other horses with conformational defects, this one proved to have an inability to stay sound when racing. Hell, he wasn't sound after the Ky Derby. Not to mention all the while they are talking, he is parading around wearing some serious footwear on the fores, especially for a stallion... Big body on crap feet is usually not a good combination.

I thought that was wild too. Like, bringing up these pillars of good stallion as per Bull Hancock... then being like "well, except for the two year old one... but Baffert and Winstar pinky swore he was a great two year old he just didn't race because... ya know...."

Then adding, "it's probably far more likely that Justify should get grass horses more than American Pharoah, that was the reason that we just had to have him."

He looks like he may have patches on his heels? Maybe for quarter cracks? Hard to tell just through the flashes of his feet while walking.

I know know know that every stallion needs taglines to market him, but to me hearing that he's an undefeated Triple Crown winner is... bleh.

Mylute · Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:43 pm

WILD because Pharoah's best runners at present are turfies.

Are they doubling down because they know everyone knows there's a lot of asterisks and question marks next to his name?

TapitsGal · Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:08 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:19 pm Because Scat Daddy

Although again, I would sooner spend the money on Mendelssohn.

I too would rather send a mare to Mendelssohn. I think he's a better horse than justify both when it comes to race career longetivity and soundness. I think Mendelssohn was mishandled during his career and if he hadn't shipped back and forth so many times he would've impressed even more. Justify is still unproven where Pharoah is already siring winners on three continents, turf and dirt so I really don't get why coolmore is so high on justify. I really think that given a choice of American Pharoah, Mendelssohn or justify... justify is the LEAST sound of the three. There's a reason he didn't race at two and he only raced six times at three and it seemed like Baffert barely kept him patched together in between starts. I still remember how ouchy justify seemed on his hooves during a bath the morning after the derby or Preakness

Flanders · Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:12 pm

I'm sure there are various reasons, one being Scat Daddy but I think the big one is, it all comes down to what they paid for Justify. He cost 75 million, of course they are going to try and hype the crap out of him. They want to get as much money before the verdict comes in when his foals hit the racetrack. If they can make him as a stallion, he will never have the limited book because of when he was born and he can earn them a ton of money. They've failed on these huge purchases before in the US. Cigar was infertile and more a huge failure for the insurance company. Fusaichi Pegasus never did much but I feel they never moved him on, maybe because he cost so much, maybe the syndicate felt they should just keep him because of the price, maybe because it would be admitting a huge failure, maybe because he had a clause that said he couldn't be sold.

CorridorZ75 · Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:48 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:12 pm I'm sure there are various reasons, one being Scat Daddy but I think the big one is, it all comes down to what they paid for Justify. He cost 75 million, of course they are going to try and hype the crap out of him. They want to get as much money before the verdict comes in when his foals hit the racetrack. If they can make him as a stallion, he will never have the limited book because of when he was born and he can earn them a ton of money. They've failed on these huge purchases before in the US. Cigar was infertile and more a huge failure for the insurance company. Fusaichi Pegasus never did much but I feel they never moved him on, maybe because he cost so much, maybe the syndicate felt they should just keep him because of the price, maybe because it would be admitting a huge failure, maybe because he had a clause that said he couldn't be sold.

Their whole business model is based on recouping the investment in the first three years before the first crop hits the track. That is why the huge crops and the double seasons. However, in modern day, the proof is in the sales ring rather than the track. If the weanlings or the first yearlings don't look the part, these ridiculously high intro stud fees start to leave the breeders looking a bit naked financially. Coolmore has a bit of a failsafe in that they throw crazy money to financially support their big stallions by buying a ton in the first year or two to push the big averages they then advertise on. Really it is all just a shell game to entertain supremely wealthy people.