Stallion News

[lurkey mclurker]

He's looking pretty darn hunkalicious now, too... (photo via @nancygsexton)

[tachyon]

Epiphaneia(JPN), 2010H. Symboli Kris S(USA) x Cesario(JPN) by Special Week(JPN), sired his first Classic winner from his first crop, as his 3yo filly Daring Tact(JPN)[o/o Daring Bird(JPN) by King Kamehameha(JPN)] won the G1 Oka Sho (Japanese 1000 Guineas) on April 12th 2020.

http://japanracing.jp/_news2020/pdf/200412-02.pdf

Is Cesario going to be a Japanese Urban Sea?

Hope so. Love Epiphaneia. My favorite pic from when he was racing is this one:

This pic must be from his Kobe Shimbun Hai victory at 3.
He was ridden by Yuichi Fukunaga who had guided Cesario to her historic win in the American Oaks 2005.
I remember that race with Vic Stauffer's call at Hollywood Park as if it were yesterday.

[mariasmon]

Epiphaneia(JPN), 2010H. Symboli Kris S(USA) x Cesario(JPN) by Special Week(JPN), sired his first Classic winner from his first crop, as his 3yo filly Daring Tact(JPN)[o/o Daring Bird(JPN) by King Kamehameha(JPN)] won the G1 Oka Sho (Japanese 1000 Guineas) on April 12th 2020.

http://japanracing.jp/_news2020/pdf/200412-02.pdf

Is Cesario going to be a Japanese Urban Sea?

Hope so. Love Epiphaneia. My favorite pic from when he was racing is this one:

This pic must be from his Kobe Shimbun Hai victory at 3.
He was ridden by Yuichi Fukunaga who had guided Cesario to her historic win in the American Oaks 2005.
I remember that race with Vic Stauffer's call at Hollywood Park as if it were yesterday.

Yes, that was really special.

[Mylute]

G. W.'s d'Oro is no longer on Clear Creek Stud's website, the Louisiana Bred website, or Bloodhorse website. He has produced very little since 2014 so I assume they either pensioned him or perhaps he passed away.

[Treve]

Classic Empire and American Pharoah, both sons of the late Pioneerof the Nile

My boys

[Retrospectiv]

Shocker - Overanalyze also ended up in Korea. Seems Winstar has a one way shuttle going there.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bloo ... -to-korea/

[Mylute]

안녕, 위에 - 분석하다.

[Ziggypop]

Shocker - Overanalyze also ended up in Korea. Seems Winstar has a one way shuttle going there.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bloo ... -to-korea/

Have completely lost respect for Winstar.

[Northport]

Shocker - Overanalyze also ended up in Korea. Seems Winstar has a one way shuttle going there.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bloo ... -to-korea/

As a breeder, what is the point of supporting a mid-low range new stallion at WinStar or Spendthrift? If you get a good runner or superstar with the potential to be a stallion, there will be an asterisk that his sire got shipped off to Korea/South America/Turkey as a failure after 1-3 seasons.

[Gemini]

Shocker - Overanalyze also ended up in Korea. Seems Winstar has a one way shuttle going there.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bloo ... -to-korea/

As a breeder, what is the point of supporting a mid-low range new stallion at WinStar or Spendthrift? If you get a good runner or superstar with the potential to be a stallion, there will be an asterisk that his sire got shipped off to Korea/South America/Turkey as a failure after 1-3 seasons.

That's the whole point though... Winstar and the places like it only have mid-level stallions to generate short term income. They don't focus on average breeders. They cash in on two or three seasons, then cash in on an international sale. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Tiznow and More Than Ready aren't going to live forever, but that's their problem.

[Northport]

Shocker - Overanalyze also ended up in Korea. Seems Winstar has a one way shuttle going there.

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bloo ... -to-korea/

As a breeder, what is the point of supporting a mid-low range new stallion at WinStar or Spendthrift? If you get a good runner or superstar with the potential to be a stallion, there will be an asterisk that his sire got shipped off to Korea/South America/Turkey as a failure after 1-3 seasons.

That's the whole point though... Winstar and the places like it only have mid-level stallions to generate short term income. They don't focus on average breeders. They cash in on two or three seasons, then cash in on an international sale. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Tiznow and More Than Ready aren't going to live forever, but that's their problem.

Agreed, but for an operation whose top 4 stallions are 27 (Distorted Humor), 23 (Tiznow and More Than Ready), and 22 (Speightstown), you'd think they'd be willing to keep some of their new guys around - not to mention them losing Pioneerof The Nile so young. A couple years ago, in the times of Always Dreaming and Runhappy, I thought that Bodemeister and Super Saver were going to be the next big things. They didn't end up setting the world on fire, but they had good runners and considering that neither never stood for less than $25,000, I was genuinely surprised when they got sold.

[Mylute]

Re-aquiring Take Charge Indy must not've been that hard for them, otherwise they might not have been so quick to ship out Overanalyze, who was a champion freshman sire and sire of a G1W. But then again I don't know.

Congrats isn't getting any younger either and I was kind of expecting Carpe Diem to get shipped out before Over. They're keeping Fed Biz on the roster at $7,500.

[Flanders]

As a breeder, what is the point of supporting a mid-low range new stallion at WinStar or Spendthrift? If you get a good runner or superstar with the potential to be a stallion, there will be an asterisk that his sire got shipped off to Korea/South America/Turkey as a failure after 1-3 seasons.

That's the whole point though... Winstar and the places like it only have mid-level stallions to generate short term income. They don't focus on average breeders. They cash in on two or three seasons, then cash in on an international sale. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Tiznow and More Than Ready aren't going to live forever, but that's their problem.

Agreed, but for an operation whose top 4 stallions are 27 (Distorted Humor), 23 (Tiznow and More Than Ready), and 22 (Speightstown), you'd think they'd be willing to keep some of their new guys around - not to mention them losing Pioneerof The Nile so young. A couple years ago, in the times of Always Dreaming and Runhappy, I thought that Bodemeister and Super Saver were going to be the next big things. They didn't end up setting the world on fire, but they had good runners and considering that neither never stood for less than $25,000, I was genuinely surprised when they got sold.

What Gemini said isn't true. The reason they bring in so many stallions each year is the hopes that they get the next big stallion. Of course they have to make sure they make the money back from the stallion in those first couple years or they'd be out of business. I know its hard for a lot of fans to view it as a business but that is what it is.

They bring in mid-level stallions in hopes that they turn into a Constitution, Distorted Humor, Tapit, War Front, etc. This is also why breeders use them, they know the dangers of breeding to a new stallion, its why most stallions books drop off so much in year 3, because by the time those foals are going to be sold, the judgement is already out on the stallion. But they could also breed to the next big stallion in his first couple books and its the same with breeding to a stallion that starts out at a high fee. They could turn out to be a failure as well.

Spendthrift and WinStar bring in as many as stallions as they can accommodate to try and catch that lightning in a bottle. When the vast majority turn out to be failures, they are sold on. They would have most likely been sold on regardless of where they stood in Kentucky. Farms don't generally keep around stallions that aren't bringing in mares and they aren't going to bring in mares if their foals aren't great on the racetrack and sell poorly. You just notice Spendthrift and WinStar more because they bring in so many new stallions each year, so they sell more on. If you look at almost any farms stallion list from a 2-3 years ago there are going to be stallions that were sold. On http://www.pedigreegoddess.com/index.htm there is a chart that shows incoming/outgoing stallions in Kentucky from 2013 to 2020, in that time span Kentucky had 211 new stallions but lost 234 (that included 23 pensioned and 24 deaths). The incoming almost always evens out with the outgoing because the vast majority of stallions aren't good enough to stand their careers in Kentucky, they are more suited to another country or regional market.

I will admit Super Saver's sale surprised me because he was still getting a good amount of mares but when you actually look at it, I can see why they chose to sell. His yearling average in 2019 plummeted and his 2020 book of mares would have also. He had 25 SWs but out of 612 foals of racing age (not counting 2020 2yos). That isn't good.

Bodemeister's sale did not surprise me. Always Dreaming was the ONLY reason he was still in the US. He wasn't getting mares and all his yearlings in 2019 were massive losses to their breeders. If he stayed for the 2020 breeding season, I would have been shocked if he got 20 mares.

I'm guessing they haven't gotten an offer on Fed Biz and will be shocked if they don't move him on soon. As for Carpe Diem, he showed a little bit with his 2yos and with hardly any races being run, they might give him some more time to see what happens with his foals.

For the most part, if a stallion isn't getting 5% stakes winners to foals of racing age, he is probably going to be sold.

There are stallions I am shocked are still in Kentucky but they don't stand at those farms. Its Algorithms at Claiborne and Strong Mandate and Will Take Charge at Three Chimneys.

[TapitsGal]

Why are you shocked Algorithms is still at Claiborne? While Claiborne has sold off other horses in the past, they don't seem to sell off their stallions frequently. Given how quickly coolmore in Kentucky booted Hansen, I always surprised that the one horse they consistently have held onto over the years is FuPeg. I do have to wonder of the five or six new stallions that Spendthrift brought in to stand this year...how many will remain at spendthrift long term? My only question is who has WinStar acquired to take his place? The fact that overanalyze bred over 100 mares his first season and only just under 50 mares last season..makes me wonder...what were breeders seeing that they didn't like? Does the horse have fertility problems? It's got to be awfully hard trying to become a solid sire especially at WinStar where you had tiznow, distorted humor, and many other proven horses overshadowing you. And am I remembering correctly? Didn't WinStar not to long ago sell off another stud also? N itobody should be terribly surprised at this news as it IS WinStar... If leading freshman sire(overanalyze) isn't enough to stay at WinStar, super saver siring Runhappy isn't good enough and siring a derby winner in your first year at stud(bodemeister) isn't good enough..what DOES WinStar need to see to keep a horse long term?

[Flanders]

Why are you shocked Algorithms is still at Claiborne? While Claiborne has sold off other horses in the past, they don't seem to sell off their stallions frequently. Given how quickly coolmore in Kentucky booted Hansen, I always surprised that the one horse they consistently have held onto over the years is FuPeg. I do have to wonder of the five or six new stallions that Spendthrift brought in to stand this year...how many will remain at spendthrift long term? My only question is who has WinStar acquired to take his place? The fact that overanalyze bred over 100 mares his first season and only just under 50 mares last season..makes me wonder...what were breeders seeing that they didn't like? Does the horse have fertility problems? It's got to be awfully hard trying to become a solid sire especially at WinStar where you had tiznow, distorted humor, and many other proven horses overshadowing you. And am I remembering correctly? Didn't WinStar not to long ago sell off another stud also? N itobody should be terribly surprised at this news as it IS WinStar... If leading freshman sire(overanalyze) isn't enough to stay at WinStar, super saver siring Runhappy isn't good enough and siring a derby winner in your first year at stud(bodemeister) isn't good enough..what DOES WinStar need to see to keep a horse long term?

I know Claiborne does things different but they do cut their losses too and Algorithms hasn't done much as a stallion, he stands for 5k and got 14 mare last year. But Math Wizard did win the G1 Pennsylvania Derby last year so maybe Algorithms got more mares in 2020. His yearling sales weren't good either.

I've said before there has to be some clause in Fusaichi Pegasus's contract that said he couldn't be sold.

As for Spendthrift, it will completely depend HOW the stallions do. Most stallions fail and will be sold on, its just how it is. So if they get one good stallion out of the group they'll be happy.

WinStar doesn't HAVE to have gotten a new stallion to sell one on. If they sold Overanalyze in the middle of the breeding season, that means he didn't get mares this year. His yearlings weren't selling well. This means breeders don't want to use him. Why would they keep a stallion breeders don't want to use? The vast majority of his yearlings sold for next to nothing last year, I mean really poorly. No breeder in Kentucky is going to send mares to a stallion that had 31 of 48 yearlings sell for $10,000 or less, and has a yearling average of $13,000. He had 3 sell for $1,000 or less. Being the leading Freshman Sire of his sire crop means little if there aren't stakes winners to back it up. There have been 7 Leading Freshman Sires who were sold from 2001, Stravinsky, Valid Expectations(never stood in Kentucky, he was moved from Florida to Texas), Posse, Offlee Wild, Henrythenavigator, Dunkirk and Overanalyze. Even not including Valid Expectations, that's still 6 of 18.

Yes Winstar moves stallions on all the time. All farms do when the stallions aren't good enough to stay in Kentucky, which the majority are not going to be good enough. Its not something new, its always been done, maybe they move them on a little faster now BUT they are also getting a lot of mares every year. No Super Saver getting Runhappy and Bodemeister siring Always Dreaming isn't good enough to stay in Kentucky. I went over why they were sold in my above post.

what DOES WinStar need to see to keep a horse long term?

Winstar, as every other farm, wants the stallions to get consistent results on the track, good yearling sales and make breeders want to send their mares to them. Bodemeister and Overanalyze weren't that and I assure you that Super Saver's mares bred would have tanked looking at his 2019 yearling figures. Once the breeders don't want to use a stallion, there is no point keeping the stallion around. No commercial breeder is going to send a mare to a stallion that is going to almost 100% going to be a loss at the sales.
I'll give you numbers. Bodemeister stood for $40,000 in 2018, his 2019 yearlings, 69 sold for an average of $15,512. No one was going to breed to him. That's a 25k loss before you factor EVERYTHING else into the picture. Plus if they were paying $40,000 stud fees the mares weren't bad, which means they lost a year of a valuable mare.
Super Saver stood for $35,000 in 2018, his 2019 yearlings, 74 sold for an average of $42,455. While that is certainly better than Bodemeister, its still a loss for the majority. Although he did have quite a few that would have been profitable for the breeders, his yearling average was $109,125 in 2018.

So when you see huge drops in a stallions yearling averages and mares bred, its pretty much a guarantee they are going to be sold because a syndicate isn't going to keep a stallion no one is going to use.

[Mylute]

So what does all that about Bodemeister mean about Always Dreaming?

[Northport]

So what does all that about Bodemeister mean about Always Dreaming?

The Turkish Jockey Club will be able to get a more competitive price for him in 2025

[FlyToTheStars]

Is this even true? Saw this when looking up on Pleasnt Colony

Following his owner's death in 1997, Pleasant Colony was sent to Lane's End Farm in Versailles, Kentucky. Somehow in 2000 he was found in horrible conditions, very underweight and was brought to the KY Horse Park where he was given proper care. In 2000, he was pensioned and sent to Blue Ridge Farm in Upperville, Virginia, where he died in 2002 at age 24.

[lurkey mclurker]

That's from Wikipedia, and there weren't any sources cited in the article.

FWIW, this is from http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... olony.html

Foaled in Virginia, Pleasant Colony was bred and owned by Thomas Evans, who raced the colt in the silks of his Buckland Farm. The horse was trained by Lee O'Donnell through his second start at 3 and was then transferred to the barn of John Campo, Sr., who trained him for the remainder of his racing career.

Pleasant Colony entered stud in 1982 at the Kentucky division of Buckland Farm. Following Evans' death in 1998, Pleasant Colony transferred to Lane's End Farm, where he was pensioned in the spring of 2000 due to declining libido. He was moved to the Kentucky Horse Park but was unable to settle in there and began losing weight. The horse's connections, deciding he needed a quieter environment, transferred him to Blue Ridge Farm in Virginia, where he settled into a peaceful retirement. Pleasant Colony died of natural causes in his paddock on December 31, 2002. His body was taken back to Buckland Farm's main property in Virginia for burial.

which seems to correlate to this https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... olony-dead

Pleasant Colony stood for a time at William S. Farish's Lane's End Farm near Versailles, Ky. He was pensioned in 2000 after developing libido problems and was moved to the Kentucky Horse Park near Lexington. That year, he was sent to Blue Ridge.

[Flanders]

So what does all that about Bodemeister mean about Always Dreaming?

Nothing. It will depend on how he does himself at stud. If he does well then he stays, if he doesn't then they will sell him.