Has feilded offers from Ireland, England, Qatar, and is "98 percent sure a deal has been done" ken has decided there's simply no North America breeder support for kittens joy ands its best he stands stud overseas.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ittens-joy
Ramsey Farm swamped by offers for kittens joy
-
BaroqueAgain1
- Posts: 15256
- Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm
"Swamped" is probably a stretch, but I don't think it's impossible that Ramsey has had some interest from a few Euro breeders. They've had the rear view of offspring like Stephanie's Kitten, Oscar Performance and Hawkbill (who has done quite well in Britain), so they know he can throw runners.
I just hope that Qatar is off the table, at least as a location.
I just hope that Qatar is off the table, at least as a location.
-
Flanders
- Posts: 9979
- Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:01 pm
I'm just copying what I said in another thread:
Yes he has found what mares nick well with his stallion BUT the majority that he breeds to Kitten's Joy have little on their sale page. No one is going to pay top price for a yearling that has a weak female family or is the first foal of a mare that won a claiming race. He doesn't get that part. In that article he compares Kitten's Joy to War Front but he doesn't seem to realize that it is the combination of War Front and the mares he was bred to that result in the high prices. For some reason he thinks the stallion is the only part of the equation that matters.
I'll also add to it here. There have been breeders who have sent nice mares to Kitten's Joy. These are the ones that sell for decent prices or they keep them to race. I give Ramsey kudos for making this stallion. I'd always liked Kitten's Joy since he was racing. In my opinion he has made some bad decisions along the way though. He shouldn't have raised his stud fee to 100k. He wasn't bringing in enough outside interest yet at that point, sure he was leading sire but the jump in price probably made breeders go elsewhere. He needed to build up to that price. Also the mares he sends to Kitten's Joy. It was ok to get a stallion started that way but when you, apparently, want him to become a commercial stallion you need a higher quality of mare.
Yes he has found what mares nick well with his stallion BUT the majority that he breeds to Kitten's Joy have little on their sale page. No one is going to pay top price for a yearling that has a weak female family or is the first foal of a mare that won a claiming race. He doesn't get that part. In that article he compares Kitten's Joy to War Front but he doesn't seem to realize that it is the combination of War Front and the mares he was bred to that result in the high prices. For some reason he thinks the stallion is the only part of the equation that matters.
I'll also add to it here. There have been breeders who have sent nice mares to Kitten's Joy. These are the ones that sell for decent prices or they keep them to race. I give Ramsey kudos for making this stallion. I'd always liked Kitten's Joy since he was racing. In my opinion he has made some bad decisions along the way though. He shouldn't have raised his stud fee to 100k. He wasn't bringing in enough outside interest yet at that point, sure he was leading sire but the jump in price probably made breeders go elsewhere. He needed to build up to that price. Also the mares he sends to Kitten's Joy. It was ok to get a stallion started that way but when you, apparently, want him to become a commercial stallion you need a higher quality of mare.
-
Admin
- Posts: 1828
- Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:35 pm
Also adding to the equation is that he doesn't sire offspring that wow buyers at the sales. Candy Ride and Hard Spun are two others in the same boat. You can't blame the buyers though for not going as high for physicals that don't get them excited.
"This is how we roll in the Shire." -- Leonard
-
Horsebagger
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm
Buyers know when they look at a KJ yearling to expect off-set knees. After they confirm that they see what they expect, they send him back to the stall and move on to their next hip. That's not a recipe to get top priced yearlings.Admin wrote:Also adding to the equation is that he doesn't sire offspring that wow buyers at the sales. Candy Ride and Hard Spun are two others in the same boat. You can't blame the buyers though for not going as high for physicals that don't get them excited.
They don't sell, but so many can run, which is why we like him enough that we've bred to him 4 of the last 5 years with mixed results to this point. Sold a filly for just shy of $400,000 (was SW), bought one back for less than $200,000 (she was offset and yet we were approached post-sale by two prominent turf trainers to train her) and love a weanling colt o/o a Tapit stakes placed mare.
Didn't pay $100,000 for any of those seasons, so there-in may lie Mr. Ramsey's issue.
-
starrydreamer
- Posts: 1145
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:51 am
Ramsey really shouldn't have dragged War Front into this. If he wants to stand Kitten's Joy in Europe, then good luck, but good grief, he has managed Kitten's Joy very differently from Claiborne's management of War Front.
I mean, it's basic economic ideas of market saturation and supply/demand. In 2016, 201 mares went to Kitten's Joy, while 111 mares went to War Front. In 2015, 187 mares went to Kitten's Joy. 109 mares went to War Front. In 2014, 204 mares went to Kitten's Joy, while 107 mares went to War Front. Kitten's Joy always sees more mares than War Front - sometimes more than 100 mares more.
In the Keeneland yearling sale that just ended, Kitten's Joy had 69 yearlings in it - War Front had 33. Kitten's Joy's last yearling was cataloged for session 11, while War Front's was in session 3.
Ramsey has done quite well for Kitten's Joy in claiming mares and breeding them to him to produce some good runners... but it's a very difficult model than how War Front is managed. War Front rarely gets a mare that isn't either at least a stakes winner or a producer of a stakes winner. Some of the same mares have gone to both, but those are the top mares in Kitten's Joy's book, while War Front consistently gets quality mares. Ramsey has really forgotten that the bottom of the pedigree counts for quite a lot.
I mean, it's basic economic ideas of market saturation and supply/demand. In 2016, 201 mares went to Kitten's Joy, while 111 mares went to War Front. In 2015, 187 mares went to Kitten's Joy. 109 mares went to War Front. In 2014, 204 mares went to Kitten's Joy, while 107 mares went to War Front. Kitten's Joy always sees more mares than War Front - sometimes more than 100 mares more.
In the Keeneland yearling sale that just ended, Kitten's Joy had 69 yearlings in it - War Front had 33. Kitten's Joy's last yearling was cataloged for session 11, while War Front's was in session 3.
Ramsey has done quite well for Kitten's Joy in claiming mares and breeding them to him to produce some good runners... but it's a very difficult model than how War Front is managed. War Front rarely gets a mare that isn't either at least a stakes winner or a producer of a stakes winner. Some of the same mares have gone to both, but those are the top mares in Kitten's Joy's book, while War Front consistently gets quality mares. Ramsey has really forgotten that the bottom of the pedigree counts for quite a lot.
-
Horsebagger
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:20 pm
I read into the DRF article today as this is someone in hope of cashing out before it's too late. At least in part. The nonsense of him thinking to stand a dirt stallion because he paid 300,000 to breed a mare to Tapit was funny. If it was so easy......
Not sure all the synapses are still firing these days.
Not sure all the synapses are still firing these days.
-
mariasmon
- Posts: 6182
- Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:38 am
Has anyone had him tested for signs of dementia? And I'm not saying that to be mean. Totally serious.Horsebagger wrote:I read into the DRF article today as this is someone in hope of cashing out before it's too late. At least in part. The nonsense of him thinking to stand a dirt stallion because he paid 300,000 to breed a mare to Tapit was funny. If it was so easy......
Not sure all the synapses are still firing these days.
http://www.drf.com/news/ramsey-looks-re ... ittens-joy
-
BaroqueAgain1
- Posts: 15256
- Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm
Roaring Lion just gave KJ another Group win in Britain. Mr. Ramsey must be smiling. 
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bree ... e-victory/
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bree ... e-victory/
-
Starine
- Posts: 8277
- Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:39 am
- Location: South Carolina
The second dam is Cambiocorsa!BaroqueAgain1 wrote:Roaring Lion just gave KJ another Group win in Britain. Mr. Ramsey must be smiling.
https://www.paulickreport.com/news/bree ... e-victory/
-
BaroqueAgain1
- Posts: 15256
- Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm
Maybe he'll become a sprinter and come to Santa Anita's next BC (next year?) to run down The Hill in the Turf Sprint. 
The Scat Daddy's do seem to excel as sprinters.
The Scat Daddy's do seem to excel as sprinters.