2017 Stallion Fees - Changes?

[Flanders]

Giants Causeway only covered 48 mares this year. His fee can't stay where it is.

Drosselmeyer only bred 15 mares. He'll likely be getting his walking papers from Winstar at some point soon.

That is crazy that Giant's Causeway only got 48 mares, he is a solid stallion. But I just went and looked at his sales results and his yearlings, overall, have not been selling well. They need to drastically reduce his stud fee or his number is going to continue to drop. That many breeders can't afford those types of loses on sales.

When people were bemoaning the fact that Colonel John was sold, I said Drosselmeyer and Sidney's Candy would be the next to go at WinStar because of their poor results at stud so far. Seeing their mare bred numbers just makes me really surprised they haven't moved them on by now, Sidney's Candy got 24 mares. Colonel John got 128 mares this year, I now find it surprisingly that they sold him since he was that popular.

[mariasmon]

Giants Causeway only covered 48 mares this year. His fee can't stay where it is.

Drosselmeyer only bred 15 mares. He'll likely be getting his walking papers from Winstar at some point soon.

That is crazy that Giant's Causeway only got 48 mares, he is a solid stallion. But I just went and looked at his sales results and his yearlings, overall, have not been selling well. They need to drastically reduce his stud fee or his number is going to continue to drop. That many breeders can't afford those types of loses on sales.

When people were bemoaning the fact that Colonel John was sold, I said Drosselmeyer and Sidney's Candy would be the next to go at WinStar because of their poor results at stud so far. Seeing their mare bred numbers just makes me really surprised they haven't moved them on by now, Sidney's Candy got 24 mares. Colonel John got 128 mares this year, I now find it surprisingly that they sold him since he was that popular.

Any chance nobody else wants Sidney's Candy or Drosselmeyer?

[Retrospectiv]

I guess the Frankel factor has failed to catch on in the US......Noble Mission only getting 63 mares at Lane's End.

[mariasmon]

I guess the Frankel factor has failed to catch on in the US......Noble Mission only getting 63 mares at Lane's End.

I believe he may have been ill and missed some time in the shed. I don't think the lowish number was due to a lack of support.

[Retrospectiv]

I guess the Frankel factor has failed to catch on in the US......Noble Mission only getting 63 mares at Lane's End.

I believe he may have been ill and missed some time in the shed. I don't think the lowish number was due to a lack of support.

Interesting, thank you : )

Hoped he'd have been received a little better. Between the two he looks a slightly larger individual than his brother. Nice build and bone in particular for a Galileo.

[mariasmon]

I guess the Frankel factor has failed to catch on in the US......Noble Mission only getting 63 mares at Lane's End.

I believe he may have been ill and missed some time in the shed. I don't think the lowish number was due to a lack of support.

Interesting, thank you : )

Hoped he'd have been received a little better. Between the two he looks a slightly larger individual than his brother. Nice build and bone in particular for a Galileo.

I don't think he'd drop from 140+ mares in his first season to 60ish in his 2nd season without a major health issue.

[Summer Bird]

I guess the Frankel factor has failed to catch on in the US......Noble Mission only getting 63 mares at Lane's End.

I believe he may have been ill and missed some time in the shed. I don't think the lowish number was due to a lack of support.

You are correct. Pretty sure he had a bout of colic, and I can't remember when he got sick, but I do know he couldn't breed again until the beginning of May.

[Flanders]

Giants Causeway only covered 48 mares this year. His fee can't stay where it is.

Drosselmeyer only bred 15 mares. He'll likely be getting his walking papers from Winstar at some point soon.

That is crazy that Giant's Causeway only got 48 mares, he is a solid stallion. But I just went and looked at his sales results and his yearlings, overall, have not been selling well. They need to drastically reduce his stud fee or his number is going to continue to drop. That many breeders can't afford those types of loses on sales.

When people were bemoaning the fact that Colonel John was sold, I said Drosselmeyer and Sidney's Candy would be the next to go at WinStar because of their poor results at stud so far. Seeing their mare bred numbers just makes me really surprised they haven't moved them on by now, Sidney's Candy got 24 mares. Colonel John got 128 mares this year, I now find it surprisingly that they sold him since he was that popular.

Any chance nobody else wants Sidney's Candy or Drosselmeyer?

That is probably why they are still there but you'd think they would at least send them to a regional market and stand them there if no one wanted to buy them.

[Insane Crazy]

Sort of related, but more about not changing -- considering his kiddos performances this year, does Curlin get to stay at $100k? It was a big bump and I'm curious about how many mares he bred with it.

[Izvestia]

Does over-breeding factor into the drop in mares for Giants Causeway? I mean, he is still producing racehorses. But he was breeding upward of 200 mares for awhile, and shuttling, does that ruin their backs, hind legs, sperm count?
Uncle Mo was over 220 mares - which I just find sick.

[Treve]

Does over-breeding factor into the drop in mares for Giants Causeway? I mean, he is still producing racehorses. But he was breeding upward of 200 mares for awhile, and shuttling, does that ruin their backs, hind legs, sperm count?
Uncle Mo was over 220 mares - which I just find sick.

Into Mischief hit 218 (wouldn't be surprised to see an increase there. 60k?) and yeah Uncle Mo had 253.
Kind of stupid considering saturating the market will reduce his offspring's value.

[Mel Mae]

WinStar released their fees today and both Sidney's Candy and Drosselmeyer are missing on the Blood-Horse story as well as on their website. Nice to see Pioneerof the Nile take a bit of a drop after an ambitious fee last year.

[Treve]

WinStar released their fees today and both Sidney's Candy and Drosselmeyer are missing on the Blood-Horse story as well as on their website. Nice to see Pioneerof the Nile take a bit of a drop after an ambitious fee last year.

That is nice. It would make more sense to drop him to 100k in my opinion but, coming from WinStar that's progress.
Speaking of Drosselmeyer I saw on their Instagram they're giving away a Drosselmeyer hat so if there are any fans... go check it out.

[Horsebagger]

Does over-breeding factor into the drop in mares for Giants Causeway? I mean, he is still producing racehorses. But he was breeding upward of 200 mares for awhile, and shuttling, does that ruin their backs, hind legs, sperm count?

I think this is more than likely a factor. We had to send a mare for three covers in 2015 before she caught. Meant that mare is going to have to be open in 2017 since she only got in foal with a late cover this year.

The risk of not covering costs breeders. No question about that at all in terms of stallion choices every year.

[Treve]

Also doesn't 30k for Exaggerator seem a little ridiculous?

[BaroqueAgain1]

IMO it is a gamble to pay high for a first-time sire, especially since Curlin hasn't yet proven himself as a sire-of-sires. Exaggerator is a gorgeous horse, so at least you're starting with a stallion who has both conformation and race record going for him.
It will be informative for breeders to see how Palace Malice's foals look; IIRC he was the first good son of Curlin to head for the shed.

[Vandalay]

Also doesn't 30k for Exaggerator seem a little ridiculous?

Yes it does,..and not to grind on it, Super saver went from $65K to $50K, but still way overpriced IMO

[Horsebagger]

Also doesn't 30k for Exaggerator seem a little ridiculous?

Had this discussion on another thread when he was retired, and suggested they'd start him out between $25,000 - $30,000 using Bodemeister at Winstar as my comp. So, I am not surprised at this level to start, but will say again, while we went to Bodemeister in his first season (successfully, I might add), we won't be considering Exaggerator.

[Treve]

Also doesn't 30k for Exaggerator seem a little ridiculous?

Had this discussion on another thread when he was retired, and suggested they'd start him out between $25,000 - $30,000 using Bodemeister at Winstar as my comp. So, I am not surprised at this level to start, but will say again, while we went to Bodemeister in his first season (successfully, I might add), we won't be considering Exaggerator.

Under that perspective then yeah it's not surprising but I'm not sure if it's entirely sensical.
On a slightly different but related topic, if Chrome were to win the BCC and the Pegasus, at what price do you think they should start him, and what price do you think they actually will?
(And for you personally, what would be the max price you'd consider him for?)

[Mel Mae]

Also doesn't 30k for Exaggerator seem a little ridiculous?

Yes it does,..and not to grind on it, Super saver went from $65K to $50K, but still way overpriced IMO

I was surprised to see Super Saver got 154 mares this year. I thought he'd be popular with his success last year but didn't think he'd attract that many at the higher fee.