Calumet Farms - Bought a Coloured TB??

[Sparrow Castle]

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What a beauty! Glad they got what they (likely) wanted.

[Treve]

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What a cutie! Can't wait to see pictures of her up and about... and see how she grows.

[Starine]

It should still never be the main focus of why you're breeding. Conformation and purpose/function are what you strive for. It's why we end up with so many backyard horses with flashy markings but awful conformation and temperaments.

Oh, believe me, I get it. I used to volunteer for a local equine rescue where we had plenty of horses from backyard breeders that were colorful but terribly conformed. Especially the ones that were weird crosses where the breeder reasoned breeding an Anglo Arabian to a TWH-Appaloosa mix would produce a foal with the stamina of the Arabian, the speed of the Thoroughbred, the gaits of a TWH and the spots of the Appaloosa. Because, you know, genetics.

[BaroqueAgain1]

^ Too right. From what I've seen over the years, crossing two breeds that don't have similar proportions can give you an unfortunate combination.

[Treve]

^ Too right. From what I've seen over the years, crossing two breeds that don't have similar proportions can give you an unfortunate combination.

There was a while in the Netherlands where everyone was going crazy and crossing Friesians with everything they could find... Friesians don't usually cross very well due to their short neck (great for carriage driving, their primary purpose) and particular confo. I've seen some truly fugly crosses. However one successful cross is the 'Barock Pinto' which created a studbook with the goal of having flashy pinto-coloured baroque styled horses. Some of them are quite nice and very functional.

Regarding colour most breeds do have a standard for preference and colour, and while some of those reasons are outdated and irrelevant, some of them exist for a reason. Sometimes colour has a purpose beyond just 'it look pretty in me yard!'

And look at programs like Blazing Colour Farm... they produce quality sport horses in colour - rather than colourful horses for sport. The nuance is important, but I don't see what the problem is in wanting the ultimate goal to produce quality, functionality in colour. There's a market for it beyond BYB frankenbreeds.

[BaroqueAgain1]

Short neck? The Friesians I've seen have rather long necks, although they're set on their shoulders in a very upright position...and are quite muscular. Great for 'noble steed' visuals, but I've heard that they're not a comfortable horse to ride.
I've seen a fair number of Friesian/Gypsy Horse crosses, and that seems to work pretty well. They're both light draft horses, strong-boned, medium sized, and originally bred for pulling carts/carriages. And they both have lots of feather. Definitely Baroque.

[Insane Crazy]

Sounds like the flashy little Risque Remarque filly is out of Terrify, a black-type mare by Even the Score out of a Forest Wildcat mare. I'm interested to see if it's ever going to be likely to see such flash at the top levels of the sport. That'd be the only way to really ensure breeding for quality down the road.

[BaroqueAgain1]

Top levels of which sport? Racing? Or Sporthorse use? Perhaps this filly is destined for dressage or eventing?

[Insane Crazy]

Top levels of which sport? Racing? Or Sporthorse use? Perhaps this filly is destined for dressage or eventing?

I meant racing. I didn't mean to imply she's not a nice mare -- as far as mares go, being black type and with a decent enough pedigree, she's just dandy. Probably the nicest racemare to ever be bred to Risque, lol. Just sort of spitballing about how one would really bring color to the sport on a wide scale.

[BaroqueAgain1]

And I agree with you. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to pick a tiff.
Kelly may be thinking along the same lines...too many "Sport horses" being bred for color, and not enough for conformation. Perhaps he feels RR is a decent sort, along with having having that fancy color profile. And he wants to improve the next generation of RR's foals by using well-conformed mares with him.

[Insane Crazy]

And I agree with you. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to pick a tiff.
Kelly may be thinking along the same lines...too many "Sport horses" being bred for color, and not enough for conformation. Perhaps he feels RR is a decent sort, along with having having that fancy color profile. And he wants to improve the next generation of RR's foals by using well-conformed mares with him.

Naw, no tiff taken! You're good.

I think you may be right. How did someone put it a few pages ago -- Kelly seems to be doing whatever he wants, re: breeding. If spearheading a spotted racehorse bloodline that can win is one of those things, then all the power to him. I'd love to see where this filly goes if she has any bit of success on the track.

[BaroqueAgain1]

I'd love to be able to ask Kelly about his goals for Risque R. Does he intend to develop flashy TBs who will succeed on the track, or is he aiming for a physique that will be more suitable for jumping or dressage? We know that there is a market for colored sport horses, and he might be focusing on that.

[Northport]

Is there even really that big of a market for coloured (I mean more cremello/pure white than pinto) sporthorses? I see farms like Blazing Colours selling lots of foals, yearlings, in utero, etc. but you don't ever hear/see coloured sport horses at actual hunter/jumper shows, or at least the ones I go to. WEF, Kentucky, heck, even the Ontario shows that would be local for BCF.

My point is, I see a lot of sales of these specifically colour bred warmbloods as young stock on Facebook, but have yet to see more than a handful compete (successfully) at a major showjumping event.

Is it obvious I really don't like breeding for colour? You can say the horse is quality all you want, but the very small amount of the bred-for-colour horses I have seen compete are usually going a mile a minute, trying to exit the ring stage left, and are just overall kind of squirrelly.

This is a bit more ranty than I planned on it being, but yeah I just have lots of opinions on the topic

[Flanders]

I'd love to be able to ask Kelly about his goals for Risque R. Does he intend to develop flashy TBs who will succeed on the track, or is he aiming for a physique that will be more suitable for jumping or dressage? We know that there is a market for colored sport horses, and he might be focusing on that.

I think I posted an article in here somewhere but Calumet's stallion manager(I think, he was a manager of some sort at Calumet) said they were planning on racing Risque Remarque's foals.

[Insane Crazy]

I know in the case of BCF and True Colors when they were breeding, a lot of the focus was on making amateur-friendly horses. Which they, on whole, seem to have accomplished. There's certainly demand for flash -- there are more than a few nice pinto and cream-based warmblood stallions out there -- but whether that flash has made it to the tip top levels, I'm not sure. I'm also not sure it *has* to in order to be valid, so long as it's not literally just buying a spotted stallion on Craigslist and breeding it to anything that moves. If there are lots of lower-level riders who want nice, conformationally sound animals with color but don't plan to take them to Rolex, that's still a market.

I personally don't want a pure white or a cremello because I had a paint show horse and that much white is an unforgiving and cruel mistress. But those animals are ideal for creating buckskins, palominos, and splashy paints, which is why I imagine there is a bit of clamor for them as stallions.

I personally, of the lot, prefer Goldmaker when you're talking cremello TBs (http://www.avalon-equine.com/goldmaker.html). Avalon took him to the stallion testing and really treated him like an honest to god sporthorse sire. They also have a number of very, very nice WB dudes, so they know what they're looking for.

[Starine]

I also wanted to add that I follow a couple of endurance groups on Facebook because it's my dream to compete in the sport someday.

And it's really interesting; because of course the Arabs are dominant and popular but whenever I see people breeding Arabs with color they are always producing pintos. It kind of made me wonder why breeding for spots wasn't more popular, especially since Appaloosas are known for better-than-average endurance.

I think my dream horse would probably be that 7/8 Arab 1/8 Appaloosa I posted a photo of two pages back. More of a fan of the blankets then the leopard coloring.