2016 Stallion Fees

[Life At Zen]

So how much do you guys think American Pharoah will stand for? (Not should stand for, but will.)

200k.

[Ballerina]

$150K

[TapitsGal]

175K

[Twingo]

My Prediction

Uncle Mo - 60,000

Scat Daddy - 70,000-80,000

American Pharoah - 150,000 - 175,000

hard to say

[Izvestia]

$175,000 is sooooooo crazy. Although I am sure they will get 200+ mares for him. I'd rather go to his grand sire. Even Pioneerof the Nile is not so great if you take American Pharoah out of the equation.

American Pharoah has a pedigree that is actually quite open - he's got one strain of Mr. Prospector, and only 2 of Northern Dancer in his 5th generation. Raise A Native is in his 5th and 6th generation. Bold Ruler is in 5th, 6th, and 7th as well. So, I think he could match up to a lot of mares that are inbred multiple times to those sires up close. Interesting to see who goes to him, and what he turns out to be as a sire. I think it sucks he's going to Coolmore - with the way they over-saturate the market. Like almost all of their big name sires, I bet AP's fee will decrease. Can't stay that high forever. Get him while he's hot.

[Private Thoughts]

I think they set the fees so high so they can recoup their investment before his first foals are 3, so if he is a dud, they are not out too much money. I mean look at Smarty Jones and Point Given, same thing. I guess it makes sense if you are in the business of making money to set the price as high as the market will tolerate when he is new and a hot commodity. If another horse wins the TC next year, he will not be such a novelty, and it could happen, look at Slew and Affirmed back to back.

I honestly think they will shoot for the moon and set his fee at $200,000. While PON is the sire of a TC winner, he is the actual TC winner and BC Classic winner and will be a multiple Eclipse champion. He is something special and rare at the moment, that may not always be the case. Just my thoughts.

As for PON, I think he is way over priced for what he has sired. Good luck to them though, if they can actually fill his book with the price so high.

[bare it all]

I'm actually sick at the thought of that horse being locked in his stall for the better part of the breeding season. 3-4 mares a day at least. Little human interaction (as compared to what he has had). And when does he start shipping to Australia to cover another 120-200 mares?

Just dreadful really. I'm not as sad about him retiring as to where he's retiring.

Maybe they will limit his books and maybe Coolmore has some fan meet and greets. Maybe he never shuttles. Maybe he gets to be a horse more than a paycheck.

[Private Thoughts]

I'm actually sick at the thought of that horse being locked in his stall for the better part of the breeding season. 3-4 mares a day at least. Little human interaction (as compared to what he has had). And when does he start shipping to Australia to cover another 120-200 mares?

Just dreadful really. I'm not as sad about him retiring as to where he's retiring.

Maybe they will limit his books and maybe Coolmore has some fan meet and greets. Maybe he never shuttles. Maybe he gets to be a horse more than a paycheck.

I, too, wonder what life will hold for him at Coolmore. But personally, I like Coolmore, they have always been super nice to us. I think they get a decent amount of turn out time and they have stallions that live pretty long lives, Storm Bird and El Gran Señor are two that come to mind. He was one of my favorites and we were able to visit with him outside in his gorgeous paddock. He was a very laid back customer, compared to Storm Bird, who they said was a nutter. I don't care for the large books that they have their stallions service and I am not a fan of the dual hemisphere seasons. I know they have stallion open houses where anybody can go but with AP I have to wonder if they won't perhaps have to have special days to accommodate his fans. Maybe they could do stallion shows like they do in Japan.

I would hope that his owners would have his best interests at heart and not send him someplace he would be miserable.

[Insane Crazy]

One of my best friends worked at Ashford and thinks some of the misery over his "caging" is a little overblown. They have lovely turnout paddocks that they do indeed get to use, get lots of attention from staff (not just the stud grooms), and of course want for nothing. He spends 23 hours a day in a stall as it is on the track, so cushy Kentucky living will be more than fine for the big guy.

Him covering two full books in two hemispheres -- maybe not this season, but eventually -- does make me cringe a little. I'm more worried he'll be overly sheltered from fans as well, but that's of course the selfish bit of me who wants to see him whenever I want.

As for his price, I always thought $75k-$100k would be the most reasonable, but after today, definitely wouldn't be surprised to see $150k+.

[Treve]

One of my best friends worked at Ashford and thinks some of the misery over his "caging" is a little overblown. They have lovely turnout paddocks that they do indeed get to use, get lots of attention from staff (not just the stud grooms), and of course want for nothing. He spends 23 hours a day in a stall as it is on the track, so cushy Kentucky living will be more than fine for the big guy.

Him covering two full books in two hemispheres -- maybe not this season, but eventually -- does make me cringe a little. I'm more worried he'll be overly sheltered from fans as well, but that's of course the selfish bit of me who wants to see him whenever I want.

That was actually one of the questions I would have asked at the press conference if I had been there.

"Mr.Zayat, it is my understanding you usually retain a share in your colts that go to stud - do you get any say at all in the management? While Ashford is an institution, American Pharoah has reached the public in such a special way, will he remain more available and accessible to visits from fans throughout the year?"

[mimi6920]

I'm actually sick at the thought of that horse being locked in his stall for the better part of the breeding season. 3-4 mares a day at least. Little human interaction (as compared to what he has had). And when does he start shipping to Australia to cover another 120-200 mares?

Just dreadful really. I'm not as sad about him retiring as to where he's retiring.

Maybe they will limit his books and maybe Coolmore has some fan meet and greets. Maybe he never shuttles. Maybe he gets to be a horse more than a paycheck.

I could not agree more. Every time I have been to Ashford, it makes me think of a horse gulag. The environment is so different there than it is at Claiborne, Taylor Made, and Adena Springs. I just hate it for a horse that is as sweet and social as he appears to be. Makes me think of the stories I read about Alydar and how much his personality changed when he became a breeding ATM for Calumet....

[ThreeMustangs]

If I had a mare that fit well with both Honor Code and American Pharoah, I would choose Honor Code. Stronger family, by a proven sire of sires, gorgeous horse, and probably less than half the stud fee. And if I were breeding to sell, less HC babies flooding the market.

[bare it all]

One of my best friends worked at Ashford and thinks some of the misery over his "caging" is a little overblown. They have lovely turnout paddocks that they do indeed get to use, get lots of attention from staff (not just the stud grooms), and of course want for nothing. He spends 23 hours a day in a stall as it is on the track, so cushy Kentucky living will be more than fine for the big guy.

Him covering two full books in two hemispheres -- maybe not this season, but eventually -- does make me cringe a little. I'm more worried he'll be overly sheltered from fans as well, but that's of course the selfish bit of me who wants to see him whenever I want.

As for his price, I always thought $75k-$100k would be the most reasonable, but after today, definitely wouldn't be surprised to see $150k+.

Thanks for inside info on Coolmore/ashford. The fan and people perspective is more just selfishness, but this colt does seem to like his admiring public. I'm sure he will be just as happy with grass under his feet and the sun on his back. Honestly, its the book size I worry about most. Their stallions are perenially covering the most mares in the US. Just hope he doesn't sour.

[Treve]

The pinnacle of irony would be a repeat of War Emblem (or worse... not even picky, just, not into mares!)

[bare it all]

The pinnacle of irony would be a repeat of War Emblem (or worse... not even picky, just, not into mares!)

One up that... Cigar.

Wouldn't Pharoah be amazing at the horse park?

[Flanders]

The pinnacle of irony would be a repeat of War Emblem (or worse... not even picky, just, not into mares!)

One up that... Cigar.

Wouldn't Pharoah be amazing at the horse park?

No.
I want to see his foals race. I'm hoping the insurance company says he is worth too much money to shuttle. They told them that with Giant's Causeway.

[mimi6920]

Flanders that is very interesting about Giant's Causeway. I never knew that insurance companies could say no to shuttling based on the value. It does make sense though....

[Flanders]

Flanders that is very interesting about Giant's Causeway. I never knew that insurance companies could say no to shuttling based on the value. It does make sense though....

Well that was what I heard, that the insurance would be too high to send him. I guess the insurance company didn't actually say no, just told them they would have to pay a lot more if they wanted to risk it.

[Sparrow Castle]

Flanders that is very interesting about Giant's Causeway. I never knew that insurance companies could say no to shuttling based on the value. It does make sense though....

Well that was what I heard, that the insurance would be too high to send him. I guess the insurance company didn't actually say no, just told them they would have to pay a lot more if they wanted to risk it.

At Coolmore in Ireland, they told us Galileo doesn't shuttle because of insurance. Sounded like the insurance company wouldn't sell them a policy that covers shuttling, not that it was too expensive. (And when I think about it, what amount of money would be too much for Coolmore?)

[Flanders]

Flanders that is very interesting about Giant's Causeway. I never knew that insurance companies could say no to shuttling based on the value. It does make sense though....

Well that was what I heard, that the insurance would be too high to send him. I guess the insurance company didn't actually say no, just told them they would have to pay a lot more if they wanted to risk it.

At Coolmore in Ireland, they told us Galileo doesn't shuttle because of insurance. Sounded like the insurance company wouldn't sell them a policy that covers shuttling, not that it was too expensive. (And when I think about it, what amount of money would be too much for Coolmore?)

Yeah I can't remember exactly what the story was. Just that it involved insurance, it was awhile ago.