War Emblem to Old Friends

Private Thoughts · Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:21 pm

Old Friends reports that War Emblem is back in the bluegrass and will be available once he clears quarantine.

It is my understanding that when they bring back breeding stallions they have to test breed them two times. So what do they do if the mare gets in foal? Pinch it? Let her foal out? Just wondering. Also, with a stallion like him who is so picky about breeding, what do they do with a stallion such as him? Just wondering.

BaroqueAgain1 · Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:54 pm

"Available?"

I wasn't under the impression that War Emblem was going to be returned to being an active stud. I guess I thought he had been pensioned, and that was why Old Friends was getting him.
So many questions.

ETA: OK, this article makes it sound like he is, indeed, pensioned.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n-kentucky

BlindLucky · Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:49 pm

BaroqueAgain1 wrote:"Available?"
I wasn't under the impression that War Emblem was going to be returned to being an active stud. I guess I thought he had been pensioned, and that was why Old Friends was getting him.
So many questions.

ETA: OK, this article makes it sound like he is, indeed, pensioned.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n-kentucky

Yeah, by "available" they meant for visitors at the farm.

BaroqueAgain1 · Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:10 pm

I have to admit that my hopes went up just a little, wondering if some Kentucky breeder had developed a miracle cure for War Emblem's 'reluctance' to mount a mare. The progeny he has had indicates that he could have been a very successful, even influential, stallion....if only.....

Northport · Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:25 pm

Private Thoughts wrote: It is my understanding that when they bring back breeding stallions they have to test breed them two times. So what do they do if the mare gets in foal? Pinch it? Let her foal out? Just wondering. Also, with a stallion like him who is so picky about breeding, what do they do with a stallion such as him? Just wondering.

They do this too for showjumping stallions (though it may be one mare instead of two) when they are in quarantine before returning to the states for long stretches of time for competition. They aren't even technically breeding stallions since they only have a couple of AI sessions a year while actively competing, but I have wondered what happens if the mares they cover in quarantine get in foal.

Retrospectiv · Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:15 pm

Northport wrote:
Private Thoughts wrote: It is my understanding that when they bring back breeding stallions they have to test breed them two times. So what do they do if the mare gets in foal? Pinch it? Let her foal out? Just wondering. Also, with a stallion like him who is so picky about breeding, what do they do with a stallion such as him? Just wondering.
They do this too for showjumping stallions (though it may be one mare instead of two) when they are in quarantine before returning to the states for long stretches of time for competition. They aren't even technically breeding stallions since they only have a couple of AI sessions a year while actively competing, but I have wondered what happens if the mares they cover in quarantine get in foal.

Curious as well. I remember them mentioning Silver Charm having to cover a few as well when he came home. No mention of what ever comes from those required breedings.

Treve · Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:50 pm

Dunno if this is standard for every quarantine but seems like UC Davis uses mares that have had an ovariectomy.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ceh/quarantine/q_fees.cfm

Following that logic I imagine other places would use sterile mares or mares that have failed to produce in the past?

Squally · Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:28 pm

Treve wrote:Dunno if this is standard for every quarantine but seems like UC Davis uses mares that have had an ovariectomy.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ceh/quarantine/q_fees.cfm

Following that logic I imagine other places would use sterile mares or mares that have failed to produce in the past?

Very interesting, thanks for posting that link. I totally assumed that they just needed to collect the stallion to test whatever it is they test. But it looks like they have to actually breed a mare. Huh. So, how the heck to they do that with WE? Wonder if anyone will ever comment on it, just for us nosey types <g>

BlindLucky · Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:32 pm

So pensioned stallions who won't be bred anymore are required to be bred?

Edit: Or are we getting things mixed up with what happens with active stallions when they return vs. pensioned?

Treve · Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:26 am

BlindLucky wrote:So pensioned stallions who won't be bred anymore are required to be bred?

Edit: Or are we getting things mixed up with what happens with active stallions when they return vs. pensioned?

I think they might do this even for stallions who aren't used for breeding (like Iberian breeds who are often used for equestrian artistic shows, liberty shows etc. (the stallions never breed if they perform with other stallions so as not to trigger undesirable fighting tendencies)) because the point is, technically they COULD end up covering a mare even if completely unintentional (say, loose mare, pasture hopping etc.) ? The idea is to protect the local equine population from the spreading of certain diseases, so it doesn't matter if you intend on breeding or not, because the idea is that it can be done.

After some additional sleuthing on the internet I have found that the only horses exempt from CEM testing are:
1. Geldings
2. Stallions and mares under 731 days of age that have never been bred.
3. Horses coming from countries not affected by CEM.

Well the folks at the quarantine are in for an interesting challenge...

BlindLucky · Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:27 am

Treve wrote:
BlindLucky wrote:So pensioned stallions who won't be bred anymore are required to be bred?

Edit: Or are we getting things mixed up with what happens with active stallions when they return vs. pensioned?
I think they might do this even for stallions who aren't used for breeding (like Iberian breeds who are often used for equestrian artistic shows, liberty shows etc. (the stallions never breed if they perform with other stallions so as not to trigger undesirable fighting tendencies)) because the point is, technically they COULD end up covering a mare even if completely unintentional (say, loose mare, pasture hopping etc.) ? The idea is to protect the local equine population from the spreading of certain diseases, so it doesn't matter if you intend on breeding or not, because the idea is that it can be done.

After some additional sleuthing on the internet I have found that the only horses exempt from CEM testing are:
1. Geldings
2. Stallions and mares under 731 days of age that have never been bred.
3. Horses coming from countries not affected by CEM.

Well the folks at the quarantine are in for an interesting challenge...

That makes more sense. Yeah, he may not be available for visitors until November... 2016!

Treve · Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:14 am

I was just thinking... does anyone know whether or not War Emblem has tried breeding at liberty at all? I know that normally with studs of high value (in any equine discipline) that are live covering mares are often hobbled and held and the stud is led to her. I understand it is to protect the stud from a potentially fatal injury should the mare be displeased by the advances - but I know in some smaller operations their top stallion lives year round with his band of broodmares and naturally courts and breeds them come spring and summer. I know they say they tried everything but I am skeptical... what about clicker training ? If he isn't motivated by the reward of breeding, ask him to breed in exchange for something else he values... I kid, I kid but I wish there was an exhaustive list of what was tried, I know they attempted hormone therapy, plus his own private barn surrounded only by mares, lining up several mares at a time to let him choose etc.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if the quarantine people accidentally stumble on the secret to War Emblem's libido?

Diver52 · Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:46 pm

It seems to me they did try pasture breeding but I'm not sure.

Northport · Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:55 pm

I am pretty sure they did try pasture breeding him. Not sure if it worked or for how long they did it for - considering his violent tendencies - but they did try it.

LostADream · Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:26 pm

I've checked several old articles, and the closest to pasture breeding it seems they did was putting the mares on one side of the fence and War Emblem on the other, so he could "patrol" the mares along the fenceline. It doesn't look like they ever did try physically turning him out with the mares, no fence between. Here's the most detailed article I found:

http://www.pennsylvaniaequestrian.com/n ... t-stud.php

"We are confident that he has turned the corner to becoming a normal breeding sire. I sure don't know how horses think about these matters, but observations of his behavior indicate that War Emblem appears to be quite enthused about his new direction."

Obviously that didn't last, but at least for a while there he went for it!

Treve · Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:16 am

LostADream wrote:I've checked several old articles, and the closest to pasture breeding it seems they did was putting the mares on one side of the fence and War Emblem on the other, so he could "patrol" the mares along the fenceline. It doesn't look like they ever did try physically turning him out with the mares, no fence between. Here's the most detailed article I found:

http://www.pennsylvaniaequestrian.com/n ... t-stud.php

"We are confident that he has turned the corner to becoming a normal breeding sire. I sure don't know how horses think about these matters, but observations of his behavior indicate that War Emblem appears to be quite enthused about his new direction."

Obviously that didn't last, but at least for a while there he went for it!

Thanks, that's what I thought too (that he had never been turned physically loose with the mares in the same pasture). I mean I can understand the reluctance to do it given the value of a lot of these mares and the stud but I can't help but to wonder sometimes.

tachyon · Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:19 am

War Emblem (Sep 2015)

LostADream · Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:28 pm

Gotta love that 'tude, but something tells me he's not going to be one they encourage people to pet and feed over the fence...hope they've reviewed and strengthened their liability insurance!

lurkey mclurker · Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:49 pm

He looks like he's about half a minute and one small lunge away from eating that hand...

bare it all · Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:57 pm

For some reason I feel like he will start as a Gulch/Creator. They have some people they like and will take carrots from, but the tour certainly does not encourage you to hug them and take a selfie with them snuffling your hair.

I do wonder if he will end up like Tinner. On the back 40 and only available to see every so often if you call ahead and ask. Only wondering how personable a stallion WE is, I suppose.