Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

We've talked about best broodmares so who are the worst top broodmares?

I am referring to horses active in the shed after 2000 who are either still active or currently pensioned. Horses such as Rachel Alexandra I don't think is fair to count

Zenyatta is one who pops into my mind as one of the worst. She had crap luck as a broodmare and her foals (not counting her yearling) have failed under Shirreffs. One of the super mares on the track who failed in the shed. I'd love to see her last foal go to a different trainer to see what happens, even if she wins once shed still be the best of Zs foals.


The full sister to my favorite tc winner American Cleopatra also makes my list of worst broodmares. She doesn't have a ton of foals but only one is racing of the 3 I know of. Wouldn't call her a top broodmqre given she barely raced but she's still not producing much

Might want to change this to relate to big name mares. There are thousands of bad broodmares - you just haven’t heard of them.

Riboletta (BRZ)
Paseana (ARG)

I don't think it's a fair topic. Most top mares are bred to whoever the biggest name stallions are as opposed to sires that are right for them. Lady's Secret is one that comes to mind. She was a petite mare and was bred to much larger stallions, and when you look at her offspring they look like two different horses stuck together. Nowadays most top broodmares are bred to produce sales horses as opposed to race horses like in the past, and it shows in their records.

yeah, not a fair comparison to stallions. in addition to poor matchmaking these days, any issues and you've lost one of maybe a dozen foals mare might have, at most. so they have a much smaller chance at success than stallions do for several reasons.
i hated that train robbery saw like 2 stallions in her life, i hate the way... is it pope? one the big mare owners "likes grey horses" so she keeps using tapit, i was unimpressed w zenyatta's matches (tho her bad luck didn't help her case). i remember one mare who has now passed that the owners' agents were begging for her to be sent to galileo but the owener said they'd miss seeing her so she never went.

mares are harder to evaluate, so i'm reluctant to throw out too much judgement on their ability (generally).

sweettalk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 3:57 pm yeah, not a fair comparison to stallions. in addition to poor matchmaking these days, any issues and you've lost one of maybe a dozen foals mare might have, at most. so they have a much smaller chance at success than stallions do for several reasons.
i hated that train robbery saw like 2 stallions in her life, i hate the way... is it pope? one the big mare owners "likes grey horses" so she keeps using tapit, i was unimpressed w zenyatta's matches (tho her bad luck didn't help her case). i remember one mare who has now passed that the owners' agents were begging for her to be sent to galileo but the owener said they'd miss seeing her so she never went.

mares are harder to evaluate, so i'm reluctant to throw out too much judgement on their ability (generally).

Both the “I love gray horses” and the “please send her to Galileo” are about Havre de Grace, I believe. I know for a fact the one about Galileo is, and I know the gray horse one is about one of Mandy Pope’s mares.


Also to be fair to OP, I believe they meant mares that retired with a lot of excitement surrounding their broodmare career who didn’t produce much (example: Zenyatta). I get why it isn’t as fair a comparison, but still.

Rachel Alexandra by any definition was a good broodmare. Two foals to race, two winners, 1 Grade 1 winner? Heck yeah. Wish she could have had more, but I have the greatest respect for Barbara Banke to say no more after she almost died foaling.

ForTheThrill wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 6:43 pm Rachel Alexandra by any definition was a good broodmare. Two foals to race, two winners, 1 Grade 1 winner? Heck yeah. Wish she could have had more, but I have the greatest respect for Barbara Banke to say no more after she almost died foaling.

That's why I'm not counting anything against horses like her. She almost died twice foaling so she doesn't have enough foals on the group to judge

Also, it's not really fair to compare high-profile mares that have reproductive problems, like Genuine Risk and Paseana, with high-profile mares that are able to produce multiple foals that end up not being able to run at all, like Lady's Secret and Silverbulletday. I know that sometimes a generation gets skipped. I think Silverbulletday did have a couple of daughters that ended up as graded stakes producers, but SBD never produced a racehorse that could run a lick, and Lady's Secret didn't either.

I can't hold Paseana only able to produce one live foal against her.

Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

Wonder why they didnt name or race them.. or even sell at auctions..

flytpthestars wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:24 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

Wonder why they didnt name or race them.. or even sell at auctions..

No clue, I think the 2018 Tapit was in training briefly as a 2yo but was never named and then disappeared. None of the others ever posted a workout as far as I know. None have death reports or anything. They were all registered and nominated to the BC but just weren't named.

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

They just did her so wrong. She was a dirt filly, bred through and through for it, and they wasted her prime breeding years to Galileo

I love this filly so much, and I hate how underrated she is. I wish she could have just one good foal, even

Slewfan2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:33 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

They just did her so wrong. She was a dirt filly, bred through and through for it, and they wasted her prime breeding years to Galileo

I love this filly so much, and I hate how underrated she is. I wish she could have just one good foal, even

She can't if they don't name them or even try. That is the most baffling thing about her broodmare career. Why weren't any of them named or even tried on the track? Her first filly by Giant's Causeway was supposedly special but got injured early and was retired. Her 3yo grand daughter, Gilded Edge, broke her maiden earlier this week at Monmouth, took her 3 tries but at least she did.

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

I will never understand what they were thinking breeding Rags To Riches over and over again to turf stallions! It just made absolutely no sense, even to amateurs with just a pittance of knowledge about potential crosses! Rags was probably more born to win the Belmont Stakes than any Belmont winner we've seen in 50 years! Remember how Secretariat had detractors that insisted that a Bold Ruler couldn't get a mile and a half! She had classic distance dirt in her bones! We hear about mismanagement with racehorses all the time, but this mismanagement in the breeding shed just takes the cake! And it was Coolmore for C*****'s Sake!

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:39 pm

Slewfan2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:33 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

They just did her so wrong. She was a dirt filly, bred through and through for it, and they wasted her prime breeding years to Galileo

I love this filly so much, and I hate how underrated she is. I wish she could have just one good foal, even

She can't if they don't name them or even try. That is the most baffling thing about her broodmare career. Why weren't any of them named or even tried on the track? Her first filly by Giant's Causeway was supposedly special but got injured early and was retired. Her 3yo grand daughter, Gilded Edge, broke her maiden earlier this week at Monmouth, took her 3 tries but at least she did.

Is that Opulence you’re referring to?

I hate to say this, but maybe they saw early on that her foals weren’t going to be runners, and they didn’t want her to get a bad rap so they didn’t bother ?

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:54 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

I will never understand what they were thinking breeding Rags To Riches over and over again to turf stallions! It just made absolutely no sense, even to amateurs with just a pittance of knowledge about potential crosses! Rags was probably more born to win the Belmont Stakes than any Belmont winner we've seen in 50 years! Remember how Secretariat had detractors that insisted that a Bold Ruler couldn't get a mile and a half! She had classic distance dirt in her bones! We hear about mismanagement with racehorses all the time, but this mismanagement in the breeding shed just takes the cake! And it was Coolmore for C*****'s Sake!

Yes! And Indy is a great BMS ….its hard to believe they screwed up so badly. Rags deserved so much better..

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:54 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

I will never understand what they were thinking breeding Rags To Riches over and over again to turf stallions! It just made absolutely no sense, even to amateurs with just a pittance of knowledge about potential crosses! Rags was probably more born to win the Belmont Stakes than any Belmont winner we've seen in 50 years! Remember how Secretariat had detractors that insisted that a Bold Ruler couldn't get a mile and a half! She had classic distance dirt in her bones! We hear about mismanagement with racehorses all the time, but this mismanagement in the breeding shed just takes the cake! And it was Coolmore for C*****'s Sake!

I can understand why they tried the cross once or even twice, I don't understand why it was over and over and over again. The female family under Best In Show can produce G1SWs on the dirt or turf in any country. Its so prolific that I feel like it would take hours for me to look into and even more time to type the horses of note.

Just a few though, besides Rags To Riches and Jazil. Arcangelo, Close Hatches, Idiomatic, War of Will, Siskin, Peeping Fawn, Thewayyouare, Redoute's Choice, El Gran Senor, Try My Best, Xaar, Chimes of Freedom, Aldebaran, Spinning World, Domedriver, Fusaichi Pandora, Almond Eye, etc., etc. etc. this is just some of the horses of note under Best In Show.

Slewfan2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:19 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:39 pm

Slewfan2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:33 pm

They just did her so wrong. She was a dirt filly, bred through and through for it, and they wasted her prime breeding years to Galileo

I love this filly so much, and I hate how underrated she is. I wish she could have just one good foal, even

She can't if they don't name them or even try. That is the most baffling thing about her broodmare career. Why weren't any of them named or even tried on the track? Her first filly by Giant's Causeway was supposedly special but got injured early and was retired. Her 3yo grand daughter, Gilded Edge, broke her maiden earlier this week at Monmouth, took her 3 tries but at least she did.

Is that Opulence you’re referring to?

I hate to say this, but maybe they saw early on that her foals weren’t going to be runners, and they didn’t want her to get a bad rap so they didn’t bother ?

Yeah Opulence was supposedly injured early and retired. I think?
Then why not just pension her, why keep breeding her to top stallions? Its just baffling to me.

Slewfan2 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 9:20 pm

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:54 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:06 pm Rags to Riches is one that I would say is more disappointing or frustrating than worst broodmare. She obviously didn't cross well with Galileo or really any turf stallion, but it was done over and over. Then when she was brought back to the US, they just never named her foals(all colts) for 5 years in a row(2017-21). Like she hasn't had a named foal since she came back to the US. I imagine her 2023 Munnings filly will be named at some point simply because she is a filly. But because of the previous 5 colts, I don't have much hope for her 2024 colt.

I will never understand what they were thinking breeding Rags To Riches over and over again to turf stallions! It just made absolutely no sense, even to amateurs with just a pittance of knowledge about potential crosses! Rags was probably more born to win the Belmont Stakes than any Belmont winner we've seen in 50 years! Remember how Secretariat had detractors that insisted that a Bold Ruler couldn't get a mile and a half! She had classic distance dirt in her bones! We hear about mismanagement with racehorses all the time, but this mismanagement in the breeding shed just takes the cake! And it was Coolmore for C*****'s Sake!

Yes! And Indy is a great BMS ….its hard to believe they screwed up so badly. Rags deserved so much better..

No, they didn't "screw up"! For some unfathomable reason, they did this on purpose. If there had been just one breeding to Galileo or Henry the Navigator, I might have chalked it up to an experiment that just didn't work. But they kept going back to the turf at least 3 or 4 more times! I really wonder if there wasn't a lot of hubris involved.......we know what we're doing and we're going to be proven right!

Guess what! They weren't!