Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

Super Studs does kind of bring up images of gigolos and weightlifters (for me, anyway), but I'm freezing and I can't think of anything better right now.

Anyway, I'm only up to classic winners in family #9, and I didn't count the classic winners per sire so far. This is far from complete. But it's been fun so far. It's also very, very cold here in Texas and I need to get something warm to eat and get back under the covers. I think some of my fingers might chip right off.

A. P. Indy Runup the Colors (Alabama Stakes); Music Note (Coaching Club American Oaks, Mother Goose)

Bernardini (Preakness Stakes); Secret Status (Kentucky Oaks, Mother Goose); Rags to Riches (Belmont Stakes, Kentucky Oaks); Jilbab (Coaching Club American Oaks); Sweet Symphony (Alabama Stakes)

Assert Dancehall (Grand Prix de Paris); All My Dreams (German Derby)

Athanasius Farida (German 1000 Guineas); Ticino (Grand Prix de Paris)

Attila Saint German (French 2000 Guineas, French Derby); Fleur de Mare (French Oaks)

Bering Matiara (French 1000 Guineas); American Post (French 2000 Guineas); Pennekamp (Two Thousand Guineas)

Blenheim Drap d'Or (French 2000 Guineas); Proud One (Acorn Stakes); Whirlaway (Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes, Belmont Stakes); Mahmoud (Englsh Derby); Nellie L. (Coaching Club American Oaks, Acorn Stakes); Jet Pilot (Kentucky Derby); Blue Bear (French 1000 Guineas)

Bold Ruler Secretariat (Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes, Belmont Stakes); Bold Queen (Mother Goose); Gamely (Alabama Stakes); Lamb Chop (Coaching Club American Oaks)

Brantome Pensbury (German Derby); Vieux Manoir (Grand Prix de Paris)

Diophon Diolite (English 2000 Guineas); Theresina (Irish Oaks); Alberta (Alabama Stakes)

Emilius Preserve (English 1000 Guineas); Oxygen (English Oaks); Riddlesworth (Two Thousand Guineas); Plenipotentiary (English Derby); Extempore (English 1000 Guineas); Tausenkunstler (German 2000 Guineas); Barcarolle (English 1000 Guineas)

Felstead Rockfel (English 1000 Guineas, Oaks Stakes); Steady Aim (Oaks Stakes)

Gainsborough Hyperion (Englsh Derby, St Leger); Singapore (St Leger); Orwell (English 2000 Guineas); Solario (St Leger);
Galloper Light Beam (English Oaks); Light Brocade (English Oaks)

Galopin Galeottia (English 1000 Guineas); Brisk (French Oaks); Disraeli (English 2000 Guineas); Donovan (Englsh Derby, St Leger); Aida (English 1000 Guineas); Galliard (English 2000 Guineas)

Kilometer Nobel (German St Leger); Brisanz (German 1000 Guineas; German Oaks)

Landgraf Hausfreund (German Derby); Contessa Maddalena (German 2000 Guineas, German 1000 Guineas); Ferro (German Derby); Pelopias (German 2000 Guineas)

Le Havre La Cressonniere (French 1000 Guineas, French Oaks); Avenir Certain (French 1000 Guineas, French Oaks)

Lombard Index (German St Leger); Anno (German St Leger)

Newminster Nemesis (English 1000 Guineas); Lord Clifden (St Leger); Hermit (Englsh Derby); Musjid (Englsh Derby)
Orville Charlotte (English 1000 Guineas); Zoe (English 1000 Guineas); Ebor (St Leger); Octavius (Englsh Derby); Emilius (Englsh Derby)

Persimmon Prince Palatine (St Leger Stakes); Lord Burgoyne (French 2000 Guineas); Keystone (Oaks Stakes); Perola (English Oaks); Ouida-Halfa (French 2000 Guineas); Sceptre (, St Leger Stakes, English 1000 Guineas, Oaks Stakes)

Perth Northeast (Grand Prix de Paris); Alcantara (French Derby); Sauge Pourpree (French 1000 Guineas)

Peter Pan Vexatious (Alabama Stakes); Pandera (Mother Goose); Prudery (Alabama Stakes); Prudish (Coaching Club American Oaks); Nixie (Alabama Stakes)

Prince Bio Pres du Feu (French 2000 Guineas); Sicambre (French Derby, Grand Prix de Paris); La Petit Prince (French Derby); Rose Royale (English 1000 Guineas); Northern Light (Grand Prix de Paris)

Prunus Orgelton (German 2000 Guineas, German Derby); Weissdorn (German St Leger); Widerhall (German 2000 Guineas); Palastpage (German Derby); Mah Jong (German Derby)

Sadler's Wells Yeats (Prix Royal-Oak*); High Chaparral (Englsh Derby, Irish Derby); Montjeu (Irish Derby, French Derby); Moonshell (Oaks Stakes); Salsabil (English 1000 Guineas, Irish Derby, Oaks Stakes, Prix Vermeille); Ask (Prix Royal-Oak*); Intrepidity (Oaks Stakes, Prix Vermeille), Braashee (Prix Royal-Oak*); Imagine (Oaks Stakes, Irish 1000 Guineas); Fort Wood (Grand Prix de Paris); Milan (St Leger Stakes); Entrepreneur (English 2000 Guineas); King of Kings (English 2000 Guineas); Saffron Walden (Irish 2000 Guineas); Yesterday (Irish 1000 Guineas); Leggera (Prix Vermeille); Galileo (Englsh Derby, Irish Derby); Septimus (Irish St Leger*); Refuse to Bend (English 2000 Guineas); Old Vic (French Derby, Irish Derby); Kayf Tara (Irish St Leger*); Ebadiyla (Prix Royal-Oak; Irish Oaks); Barathea (Irish 2000 Guineas); Gossamer (Irish 1000 Guineas); Brian Boru (St Leger Stakes); Dream Well (French Derby, Irish Derby); Beat Hollow (Grand Prix de Paris); Alexandrova (Oaks Stakes, Irish Oaks); Dance Design (Irish Oaks)

Sea-Bird Allez France (French 1000 Guineas, French Oaks, Prix Vermeille); Little Current (Preakness Stakes, Belmont Stakes)

Singapore Chulmleigh (St Leger); Skoiter (Irish St Leger)

Sir Ivor Lady Capulet (Irish 1000 Guineas); Sweet Alliance (Kentucky Oaks); Godetia (Irish 1000 Guineas; Irish Oaks); Optimistic Gal (Kentucky Oaks, Alabama Stakes); Ivanjica (French 1000 Guineas; Prix Vermeille)

Sir Peter Teazle Parisot (English Oaks); Hermione (English Oaks); Ambrosio (St Leger); Sir Harry (Englsh Derby); Williamson's Ditto (Englsh Derby); Paulina (St Leger); Fyldener (St Leger); Petronius (St Leger); Paris (Englsh Derby); Archduke (Englsh Derby)

Spearmint Johren (Belmont Stakes); Royal Lancer (St Leger Stakes, Irish St Leger); Zionist (Irish Derby); Spelthorne (Irish St Leger); Spike Island (Irish 2000 Guineas, Irish Derby); Spion Kop (Englsh Derby)

Stockwell Achievement (English 1000 Guineas, St Leger); Lord Lyon (, Englsh Derby, St Leger); The Marquis (St Leger); St Albans (St Leger); Gang Forward (English 2000 Guineas); Grimston (German 2000 Guineas); Bothwell (English 2000 Guineas); Doncaster (English Derby); Blair Athol (Englsh Derby, St Leger); Caller Ou (St Leger); Regalia (Oaks Stakes); Repulse (English 1000 Guineas); Lady Augusta (English 1000 Guineas)

Summer Squall Summerly (Kentucky Oaks); Charismatic (Kentucky Derby, Preakness Stakes)

Teddy Rose of England (Oaks Stakes); Crisa (Prix Vermeille); Asterus (French 2000 Guineas); Anna Bolena (French 1000 Guineas); Sir Gallahad (French 2000 Guineas)

Tehran Amante (Irish Oaks); Tulyar (Englsh Derby, St Leger)

The Flying Dutchman Deliane (French Oaks); Brown Duchess (Englsh Oaks); Ellington (Englsh Derby)

Troy Helen Street (IRO); Walensee (Prix Vermeille)

Val de Loir Chaparral (Grand Prix de Paris); Tennyson (Grand Prix de Paris); La Lagune (Oaks Stakes); Langunette (Irish Oaks, Prix Vermeille)

Youth Teenoso (Englsh Derby, Grand Prix de Paris); Young Mother (Prix Vermeille); Sharaya (Prix Vermeille)

Oh!! Da tree yutes! Har har.

This is an incredibly rough and unedited and unverified preliminary draft that I'm gonna stop working on today because it's too cold.

~Miesque

The work you did should be integrated into a pedigree database, and/or at least become a new development of following TB genetics. Well-done!

honestly... co-work with Avalyn Hunter and make this into a book. this is GREAT work and i'd totally spend hours reading a book that develops this further

Just popping in to say that Montjeu has a long way to go before he outpaces Galileo in number of classic winners sired. Good grief...

Galileo, 1998 (ED,ID)
• Minding (1G,EO); Tuesday (EO), Empress Josephine (IR1G); Golden Lilac (F1G,FO); Frankel (2G); Love (1G,EO); Order of St George (IRSL*), Cape Blanco (ID); Peaceful (IR1G); Ruler of the World (ED); Sans Frontieres (IRSL*); Warm Heart (FV); Magical Lagoon (IRO); Sovereign (ID); Intello (FD); Kew Gardens (SL,GP); Hermosa (1G,IR1G); Capri (ID,SL); Flag of Honour (IRSL); Serpentine (ED); Alandi (IRSL*); Allegretto (FR*); Altano (GSL*); Kyprios (IRSL*); Great Heavens (IRO); Forever Together (EO); Japan (GP); Mogul (GP); Gleneagles (1G,IR2G); Marvellous (IR1G); Australia (ED,ID); Sixties Icon (SL); Soldier of Fortune (ID); Winter (1G, IR1G); Misty For Me (IR1G); Roderic O'Connor (1R2G); Anthony Van Dyck (ED); The Gurkha (F2G); Churchill (2G,IR2G); New Approach (ED); Was (EO); Savethelastdance (IRO); Seventh Heaven (IRO); Nightime (IR1G); Treasure Beach (ID): Imperial Monarch (GP); Galikova (FV)

Montjeu, 1996 (ID,FD)
• Fame and Glory (ID); Hurricane Run (ID); Montmartre (GP); Leading Light (SL); Monarte (FR*); Camelot (2G,ED,ID); Masked Marvel (SL); Motivator (ED); Frozen Fire (ID); Bracelet (IRO); Gallante (GP); Authorized (ED); Chicquita (IRO); Jukebox Jury (IRSL*); Pour Moi (ED); Scorpion (SL,GP)

And Galileo might not have Sadler's Wells beaten. I didn't count them all. I never count before all the dust is settled.

Sadler's Wells, 198 (IR2G)
• Yeats (Prix Royal-Oak*); High Chaparral (Englsh Derby, Irish Derby); Montjeu (Irish Derby, French Derby); Moonshell (Oaks Stakes); Salsabil (English 1000 Guineas, Irish Derby, Oaks Stakes, Prix Vermeille); Ask (Prix Royal-Oak*); Intrepidity (Oaks Stakes, Prix Vermeille), Braashee (Prix Royal-Oak*); Imagine (Oaks Stakes, Irish 1000 Guineas); Fort Wood (Grand Prix de Paris); Milan (St Leger Stakes); Entrepreneur (English 2000 Guineas); King of Kings (English 2000 Guinas); Saffron Walden (Irish 2000 Guineas); Yesterday (Irish 1000 Guineas); Leggera (Prix Vermeille); Galileo (Englsh Derby, Irish Derby); Septimus (Irish St Leger*); Refuse to Bend (English 2000 Guineas); Old Vic (French Derby, Irish Derby); Kayf Tara (Irish St Leger*); Ebadiyla (Prix Royal-Oak; Irish Oaks); Barathea (Irish 2000 Guineas); Gossamer (Irish 1000 Guineas); Brian Boru (St Leger Stakes); Dream Well (French Derby, Irish Derby); Beat Hollow (Grand Prix de Paris); Alexandrova (Oaks Stakes, Irish Oaks); Dance Design (Irish Oaks)

(The stuff in parentheses is just a quick coding I use for various classic races - ID - Irish Derby, ED - English Derby, EO - English Oaks, and so on.

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:35 pm Just popping in to say that Montjeu has a long way to go before he outpaces Galileo in number of classic winners sired. Good grief...

He died fairly young, if memory serves me right it was the year Camelot was a 3yo.

Flanders wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 6:07 pm

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 5:35 pm Just popping in to say that Montjeu has a long way to go before he outpaces Galileo in number of classic winners sired. Good grief...

He died fairly young, if memory serves me right it was the year Camelot was a 3yo.

He died at 16 in 2012 from sepsis.

Well, that's pretty miserable. Poor fellow. It's sad enough when they die old, but when they die young it's just depressing.

I don't keep up on the comings and goings of even the best of them lately (at least, not since Alysheba, Lure and Miesque died), though I should.

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 01, 2024 10:04 pm Well, that's pretty miserable. Poor fellow. It's sad enough when they die old, but when they die young it's just depressing.

I don't keep up on the comings and goings of even the best of them lately (at least, not since Alysheba, Lure and Miesque died), though I should.

~Miesque

I was very happy to see Alysheba in Senior Buscador’s pedigree.

Fun facts for Fr... er, Wednesday.

First, it's Alamo Day. So Happy Alamo Day to my fellow Texans. Though, really, I figure the defenders of the Alamo didn't exactly have a great day themselves.

(BTW, the Alamo finally has a full-blown museum instead of a kind of rinky-dink set of displays and a diorama, which was what it had up until recently. I always thought the Alamo deserved something a lot more grand than just a few display cases and a diorama and the marker showing were Ozzie Osbourne peed on the wall while wearing lingerie, and finally now it does.)

Anyway...

I've searched through my chart (and spent an hour correcting the pesky descendants of Ste. Alvere and I really don't want to talk about it except to say that it was like a genealogical Rubix cube, I had it so messed up) and added up the number of classic winners per family up to family #9. This is for Triple Crown race winners only for England, Ireland, France, Germany and the US, nothing more. <fumes, sputters> Okay, so I barely passed remedial math, but I know how to use Excel to my own advantage! All right? Okay?

So, per number of classic winners per family, from highest number to lowest, the tally is:

1 Family #1 491
2 Family #4 361
3 Family #2 300
4 Family #9 293
5 Family #3 286
6 Family #8 231
7 Family #5 213
8 Family #7 115
9 Family #6 112

I won't be working on this tomorrow. I'm off to Tow (as in cow) Texas for my first day of work tomorrow morning. It's an hour drive up there and an hour back but the lake is beautiful even though it's low, and it'll be a nice change of pace. Cleaning cabins will be less stressful to me than talking on the phone all day, that's for sure!

(edited because 'the Tow' sounds too weird, even for me)

~Miesque

Updated stats (number of classic winners in the US, England, Ireland, France and Germany) per family:

Family # 1 491
Family # 2 300
Family # 4 361
Family # 9 293
Family # 3 286
Family # 8 231
Family # 5 213
Family # 16 189
Family # 14 156
Family # 7 115
Family # 13 113
Family # 6 112
Family # 19 105
Family # 12 100
Family # 11 89
Family # 10 87
Family # 20 71
Family # 17 48
Family # 15 17
Family # 18 22

I'm about to go ahead and dive into Italian and Japanese classic winners, which will add to each family, no doubt. (hums "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Haha... ").

But you know, it's still fun. Even though I make mistakes on it that require redoing and changing file names and general weeping and pulling hair out. It's still fun.

~Miesque

I'm not tech-savvy enough to know if this will work, but the file for classic winning stallions who sired more than one classic winner is here:

Edited to say...

I REMOVED THE LINK. IT'S ALLOWING EDITING.

WILL FIGURE IT OUT AND REPOST...

Sorry about that.

I'm only about 3/4 finished with the Japanese St Leger. Then it's only the Japanese Fillies' Triple Crown races to do and then I'm adding Melbourne Cup winners to the Big Chart.

Tell me if it's working and/or a big mess of gobbledygook.

~Miesque

Okay, so maybe this will work while also preventing anyone from editing (or copy/pasting or printing, hopefully)

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qYx ... avIGQ/edit

I've gone mad and am working on a project of direct male lineages of classic race winners of the US, England, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy and Japan. Right now, I'm slogging my way through Ireland, currently up to (checks scratch sheet) the 1927 Irish 1000 Guineas. This project helps me keep track of not only classic winning sires of multiple classic winners, but also of non-classic winning sires of multiple classic winners.

Needless to say, that Gallinule has got the SCALD on siring classic winners in Ireland. He was sort of the Galileo of his day.

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:13 pm Needless to say, that Gallinule has got the SCALD on siring classic winners in Ireland. He was sort of the Galileo of his day.

Never heard of Gallinule before. There's a picture of him on PQ. Assuming that the picture is actually of Gallinule, he had quite a bit of flash for an 1800s horse. Surprised he was allowed to race, let alone breed.

Mylute wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:45 am

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:13 pm Needless to say, that Gallinule has got the SCALD on siring classic winners in Ireland. He was sort of the Galileo of his day.

Never heard of Gallinule before. There's a picture of him on PQ. Assuming that the picture is actually of Gallinule, he had quite a bit of flash for an 1800s horse. Surprised he was allowed to race, let alone breed.

Yes, that is him in the picture. He was the sire of the great Pretty Polly, winner of the British Fillies Triple Crown in 1904 (among other important races).

Gallinule sired the following:

SLIEVE GALLION, 1904 (English 2000 Guineas)
WILDFOWLER, 1895 (English St Leger), who sired:

• WILD BOUQUET, 1905 (Irish Derby)

Wildfowler also sired:
Llangibby, 1902, who sired:

• LAND OF SONG, 1911 (Irish Derby)
  DIONYSOS, 1915 (Irish St Leger)

PRETTY POLLY, 1901 (English St Leger, English 1000 Guineas, English Oaks)
NIGHT HAWK, 1910 (English St Leger)
PORTMARNOCK, 1892 (Irish Derby)
GULSABERK, 1893 (Irish Derby)
NOBLE HOWARD, 1895 (Irish Derby)
OPPRESSOR, 1896 (Irish Derby)
GALLINARIA, 1897 (Irish Derby)
CARRIGAVALLA, 1898 IIrish Derby)
DABCHICK, 1894 (Irish Oaks)

Gallinule also sired:
Lesterlin, 1892, who sired:

• MARY LESTER, 1900 (Irish Oaks)
  BLAKESTOWN, 1902 (Irish Oaks)

and
General Peace, 1894, who sired:

• QUEEN OF PEACE, 1905 (Irish Oaks)

and
White Eagle, 1905, who sired:

• FLYING DINAH, 1922 (Irish 1000 Guineas)

and
Oppressor, 1896, who sired:

• SHINING WAY, 1909 (Irish Oaks)

and
Kosmos Bey, 1901, who sired:

• LATHARNA, 1912 (Irish Oaks)

• THE KIWI, 1918 (Irish Oaks)

Gallinule has two blazes!!!

Mylute wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:24 pm Gallinule has two blazes!!!

He is an unusual looking horse, isn't he? Frankly, I like the ones with odd markings. Of course, in my big projects, I sometimes forget that the horses are actually individuals, not just names in a pedigree. So I like to look at whatever pictures are available (I use PQ for the most part). Not that I always remember to, but I try to take a moment and have a look. "Oooo! Horsie pritty!"

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:17 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:24 pm Gallinule has two blazes!!!

He is an unusual looking horse, isn't he? Frankly, I like the ones with odd markings. Of course, in my big projects, I sometimes forget that the horses are actually individuals, not just names in a pedigree. So I like to look at whatever pictures are available (I use PQ for the most part). Not that I always remember to, but I try to take a moment and have a look. "Oooo! Horsie pritty!"

~Miesque

https://sporthorse-data.com/pedigree

This is a great place for looking at old photos, you do have to sign up for a free account though.

How long does it take for an account to be activated? It won't let me sign in yet.

Oh well. I've got Prix du Jockey Club winners to go through. Hopefully the account will get activated at some point.

Edited: Doink... I have to activate it. Yeesh. Some days my brain works okay. Other days, it's in the other room.

~Miesque