Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

I ran this idea by admin and got the go from Kurenai, so here goes! Gonna sticky it for 10 days.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to dream about breeding a certain mare to a certain stallion, so I wanted to ask, if anyone else has any dream pairings, any specific reasons, and whatever else may be relevant to this topic, feel free to post it here and discuss.

I'll go first;
Zenyatta --> Tiznow
Swiss Skydiver --> I'll Have Another
Go For Wand --> A.P. Indy

Simply because I feel like their markings would combine into something amazing.

Rags To Riches to Deep Impact or Scat Daddy.

Ruffian to Seattle Slew

Almond eye to equinox
Monomoy girl to mind your biscuits
Enable to equinox
Monomoy girl to American pharoah

I have had a wish for some time now that Zenyatta would be bred to Speightstown. That mating carries a TrueNicks rating of A, which is very good indeed, but I just fell for the performance style of those two and how they could have really complemented each other. Also, Speightstown may have had the possibility of hooking up with the turf influence in Zenyatta's pedigree.

Sadly, 'twas not to be. Zenyatta was pensioned after Nymue was born last June, and now Speightstown has crossed the Rainbow Bridge. Guess I just have to dream about what might have been.

Almond Eye to Equinox (will happen )

Almond Eye to Animal Kingdom (will not happen but a girl can dream )

Ruffian --> Dr. Fager

Kitten's Joy - Lady Eli

Go For Wand to Alydar

Urban Sea —> Northern Dancer

Inside Information --> Holy Bull

just for my love of both front runners.

I really love everyones pairings!!!

Monomoy Girl --> Curlin would be pretty neat too!
Ruffian --> Swale

Kodiak - Got Stormy

Oh for really fast babies

Got stormy to golden pal

Belvoir Bay to golden pal

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:39 pm I have had a wish for some time now that Zenyatta would be bred to Speightstown. That mating carries a TrueNicks rating of A, which is very good indeed, but I just fell for the performance style of those two and how they could have really complemented each other. Also, Speightstown may have had the possibility of hooking up with the turf influence in Zenyatta's pedigree.

Sadly, 'twas not to be. Zenyatta was pensioned after Nymue was born last June, and now Speightstown has crossed the Rainbow Bridge. Guess I just have to dream about what might have been.

I thought that too, and for the same reasons. but I just checked his record over Street Cry mares and it's not great.

Katewerk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:09 pm

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:39 pm I have had a wish for some time now that Zenyatta would be bred to Speightstown. That mating carries a TrueNicks rating of A, which is very good indeed, but I just fell for the performance style of those two and how they could have really complemented each other. Also, Speightstown may have had the possibility of hooking up with the turf influence in Zenyatta's pedigree.

Sadly, 'twas not to be. Zenyatta was pensioned after Nymue was born last June, and now Speightstown has crossed the Rainbow Bridge. Guess I just have to dream about what might have been.

I thought that too, and for the same reasons. but I just checked his record over Street Cry mares and it's not great.

I never checked that particular nick. If that's what the data shows, then I wonder why the TrueNicks rating is so good. Does TrueNicks evaluate on other things besides sire over broodmare sire statistics? Just wondering.

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 2:16 pm

Katewerk wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:09 pm

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 3:39 pm I have had a wish for some time now that Zenyatta would be bred to Speightstown. That mating carries a TrueNicks rating of A, which is very good indeed, but I just fell for the performance style of those two and how they could have really complemented each other. Also, Speightstown may have had the possibility of hooking up with the turf influence in Zenyatta's pedigree.

Sadly, 'twas not to be. Zenyatta was pensioned after Nymue was born last June, and now Speightstown has crossed the Rainbow Bridge. Guess I just have to dream about what might have been.

I thought that too, and for the same reasons. but I just checked his record over Street Cry mares and it's not great.

I never checked that particular nick. If that's what the data shows, then I wonder why the TrueNicks rating is so good. Does TrueNicks evaluate on other things besides sire over broodmare sire statistics? Just wondering.

On Truenicks it will say what pool of horses its using, it will go back further in a pedigree to get enough horses bred on the cross if it needs to, sometimes to a ridiculous and pointless extent. If you use Equineline, it gives the rating but doesn't show what horses its using. On Truenicks, if you do Speightstown over Zenyatta it shows that its using Gone West and his sons over Street Cry mares. If there was enough horses bred on the cross it would do just Speightstown over Street Cry mares. But I've seen it go back to sire's grandsire(and his sons and grandsons) over the broodmare sire's grandsire(and his sons and grandsons). So as an example, in the Speightstown over Zenyatta it would show Mr. Prospector and his sons and grandsons over Mr. Prospector and his sons and grandsons. I don't understand how that nick would be useful at all and why they even bother. It should just say "N/A".

Thanks Flanders, as always, for that explanation. And you're right.......it is pretty laughable! It's kind of like a fan with no knowledge or experience thinking that because a horse "traces back" to Man O War, that's going to make him or her a champion! Evaluating hypothetical matings based on crossing a breed-shaping stallion (and his sons and grandsons) over himself/themselves is patently absurd! If they do this just because the sample size of matings closer up is too small, then I wonder how they became so well-known, popular, and relied on. Kinda crazy!

Missbeholder wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:45 pm Thanks Flanders, as always, for that explanation. And you're right.......it is pretty laughable! It's kind of like a fan with no knowledge or experience thinking that because a horse "traces back" to Man O War, that's going to make him or her a champion! Evaluating hypothetical matings based on crossing a breed-shaping stallion (and his sons and grandsons) over himself/themselves is patently absurd! If they do this just because the sample size of matings closer up is too small, then I wonder how they became so well-known, popular, and relied on. Kinda crazy!

I think its popular when there is enough of a sample size. It is just a tool though and wouldn't be the be all end all when deciding a mating. It has to incorporate further back generations because when stallions are young they have no sample size, the same with broodmare sires. And then as an example, say Mage or Arabian Lion going to stud in 2024, their sires only have 2 crops of racing age, so the sample size might not be there for them either. So then it kicks back yet another generation and that is how you end up with the Stallion + sons and grandsons. But at a point, I don't see how its useful like the Mr. Prospector example I gave. But a stallion can cross like crap with a broodmare sire but then one of his sons can be spectacular or vice versa. Nothing is a guarantee in breeding.

stelladaniella wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 10:48 pm I really love everyones pairings!!!

Monomoy Girl --> Curlin would be pretty neat too!
Ruffian --> Swale

This brought back a memory. Back in the 90s, Thoroughbred Times print edition, because internet was very new, did a Biennial Fiction Contest where writers could submit stories focused on the thoroughbred industry. One person submitted a story about Swale and how he was supposed to be bred to the Phipps owned Squander and the breeding was going to produce a superhorse(or the sire of a superhorse, its been too long). And it was a crazy story based around time travel being invented far in the future and someone liking Swale enough to want to go back in time and take his picture. And the camera caused him to die thus changing history. They also threw in this was how Easy Goer died as well. Idk how it stuck with me this long, I guess cause I was young. It actually led me to ask at one point if they had planned on sending Squander to Swale because her resulting foal of the supposed year was Lost Opportunity but it was completely fictional. It was just a coincidence that the foal was named this and his dam is Squander so made sense.

I will say that the stories were very good for the most part and its not the only one I have memories of.