Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

I also posted under pedigree talk somebody must know

when died they died (year) and if known what of - also their height

BRAZIL

born 1935 Legend of France by Dark Legend
born 1930 King Salmon by Salmon-Trout
born 1934 Teleferique by Bacteriophage
born 1950 Dragon Blanc by Brantome
born 1929 Royal Dancer by Blandford
born 1931 Formasterus by Asterus
born 1947 Maki (BRZ) by Formasterus

born 1973 Youth by Ack Ack - when did he died late 1980's I think - do we know what of and when?
born 1962 I Say by SAYAJIRAO
born 1976 Clackson (BRZ) by I Say

born 1955 Major Portion by Court Martial I think may have died late 1970's - do we know what off and when?

born 1968 Kublai Khan (ARG) by Sideral (ARG)
born 1968 Falkland by Right Royal V

born 1986 Legal Case by Alleged

born 1965 Felicio (FR) by Shantung
born 1983 Itajara (BRZ) died 1995 aged 12 any idea what off ? also his height?
born 1991 Siphon (BRZ) by Itajara is he still alive? what is his height

born 1987 Confidential Talk by Damascus died 2008 aged 21 - what was his height - also his progeny what was there average winning distant?

born 1972 Konigssee by Soderini -

born 1942 Coaraze by Tourbillon
born 1961 Dulcor (BRZ) by Coaraze

born 1953 Svengali (BRZ) by Fort Napoleon
born 1944 Sandjar by Goya

born 1964 St. Chad by St. Paddy

born 1948 Pharas (FR) by Pharis

ARGENTINA

o here are the Argentina stallion


b. 1961 Con Brio - - height and when he died and what if , if known
b. 1981 Fitzcarroldo - height and when he died and what if , if known
b. 1974 Cipayo - height and when he died and what if , if known
b. 1955 Lacydon - height and when he died and what if , if known
b.1962 Cambremont - height and when he died and what if , if known
b. 1952 Tatan - height and when he died and what if , if known
b.1943 THE YUVARAJ - height and when he died and what if , if known
b.1934 Full Sail - height and when he died and what if , if known
b.1943 SEDUCTOR - height and when he died and what if , if known
b.1948 Sideral - height and when he died and what if , if known
b.1959 EL CENTAURO - height and when he died and what if , if known

*Con Brio II
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... ii-gb.html

Youth
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com/youth.html

Seductor (ARG)
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... r-arg.html

Sideral (ARG)
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... l-arg.html

Confidential Talk's foals' AWD was 6.41 furlongs:
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... -talk.html

The Yuvaraj (GB)
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... aj-gb.html

Tatán (ARG)
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com/tatan-arg.html

Full Sail (GB)
http://www.americanclassicpedigrees.com ... il-gb.html

Siphon (BRZ) was listed as 16.1 hands high, and he passed away in 2019.

Itijara (BRZ) died on February 20, 1994. Unable to find height information at this time.

Cipayo (ARG) died on October 25, 2000.


I'll keep searching on these, and your past ones. On a side note, I am building a pedigree website database off-site that is similar to PQ with several others that have access to a lot of the old studbook information etc... If you are interested in being a part of it, then feel free to send me a message. I am doing this as a way of implementing new mare family numbers, encompassing California's Thoroughbred history etc... I hope these help you out.

Cambremont (FR) died on February 16, 1992. Last crop of foals were born in 1989. Other information unknown.

Fitzcarraldo (ARG) died on June 6, 2000. His last crop of foals were born in 2001. Stood stud at Haras Firmamento in Argentina.

Pharas (FR). I found this excerpt on tbheritage's site:

"PHARAS (1948), a son of the great Astérus mare Astronomie, won the Prix du Lys and one other race, and was sacrificed, unsuccessfully, as a pace-setter for STYMPHALE in the Grand Prix de Paris; after that race, in which he "lost his breath," it was determined he was a roarer. Sold to Brazil, he was successful, ranking second on the sires list once. He got a number of classic winners and good stayers, inluding Zenabre (1961), a top runner and later five times among the leading Brazilian sires, Derby Paulisa winner Garboleto, and Nermaus, a winner and later sire in Brazil."

His last crop of foals were born in 1969. Unfortunately, I am unable to find more information outside of that.

St. Chad (GB)) last foal crop was born in 1993, and he passed away in 1992. He was 16.1 hands high.

Sandjar (FR) last listed crop was born in 1966. Unable to find any other information.

*El Centauro (ARG) died in September 1981. He stood stud for one season in the USA at Fontainebleau Farm, Inc. in Paris, Kentucky before he went to Shadai Stallion Farm in Japan. Prior to be moved around, he stood stud in Argentina. I tried looking for his information in one of my old stallion registries, and I have the year after he left the USA, and not beforehand. Ugh! Fontainebleau Farm stood Loom as a stud in 1975, so I'm trying to use that as a breadcrumb trail to figure out what else they had around the time El Centauro II was there to find the height information.

Psychotic Parakeet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:10 am *El Centauro (ARG) died in September 1981. He stood stud for one season in the USA at Fontainebleau Farm, Inc. in Paris, Kentucky before he went to Shadai Stallion Farm in Japan. Prior to be moved around, he stood stud in Argentina. I tried looking for his information in one of my old stallion registries, and I have the year after he left the USA, and not beforehand. Ugh! Fontainebleau Farm stood Loom as a stud in 1975, so I'm trying to use that as a breadcrumb trail to figure out what else they had around the time El Centauro II was there to find the height information.

I looked at my stallion directories on my bookshelf and apparently I don't have them in order. I do have some from the 70s. I bought a large lot of them on Ebay at some point and never even took them out of the plastic bags they were shipped in. I looked at the 73 & 74 Bloodhorse directories and he isn't even listed under alphabetical as standing anywhere. 73 goes from El Caramelo to El Check. 74 goes from El Casey to El Check. And Loom is advertised in it. I'm wondering if they shipped him to the US after the info had to be in for the directory?

Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:10 am

Psychotic Parakeet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:10 am *El Centauro (ARG) died in September 1981. He stood stud for one season in the USA at Fontainebleau Farm, Inc. in Paris, Kentucky before he went to Shadai Stallion Farm in Japan. Prior to be moved around, he stood stud in Argentina. I tried looking for his information in one of my old stallion registries, and I have the year after he left the USA, and not beforehand. Ugh! Fontainebleau Farm stood Loom as a stud in 1975, so I'm trying to use that as a breadcrumb trail to figure out what else they had around the time El Centauro II was there to find the height information.

I looked at my stallion directories on my bookshelf and apparently I don't have them in order. I do have some from the 70s. I bought a large lot of them on Ebay at some point and never even took them out of the plastic bags they were shipped in. I looked at the 73 & 74 Bloodhorse directories and he isn't even listed under alphabetical as standing anywhere. 73 goes from El Caramelo to El Check. 74 goes from El Casey to El Check. And Loom is advertised in it. I'm wondering if they shipped him to the US after the info had to be in for the directory?

Thank you so much for having the resources to verify this (and still preserved in their plastic, too!). I believe you are right. I have a feeling he was not advertised, as he appeared to have about five or so foals born in that sole USA crop. All the ones I found were all their own homebreds. I think they just bred their own mares to him before he exported to their Japan branch. I had no idea Yoshida owned that farm [Fontainebleau], so it explains the direct connection to Shadai.

Psychotic Parakeet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:52 am

Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:10 am

Psychotic Parakeet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:10 am *El Centauro (ARG) died in September 1981. He stood stud for one season in the USA at Fontainebleau Farm, Inc. in Paris, Kentucky before he went to Shadai Stallion Farm in Japan. Prior to be moved around, he stood stud in Argentina. I tried looking for his information in one of my old stallion registries, and I have the year after he left the USA, and not beforehand. Ugh! Fontainebleau Farm stood Loom as a stud in 1975, so I'm trying to use that as a breadcrumb trail to figure out what else they had around the time El Centauro II was there to find the height information.

I looked at my stallion directories on my bookshelf and apparently I don't have them in order. I do have some from the 70s. I bought a large lot of them on Ebay at some point and never even took them out of the plastic bags they were shipped in. I looked at the 73 & 74 Bloodhorse directories and he isn't even listed under alphabetical as standing anywhere. 73 goes from El Caramelo to El Check. 74 goes from El Casey to El Check. And Loom is advertised in it. I'm wondering if they shipped him to the US after the info had to be in for the directory?

Thank you so much for having the resources to verify this (and still preserved in their plastic, too!). I believe you are right. I have a feeling he was not advertised, as he appeared to have about five or so foals born in that sole USA crop. All the ones I found were all their own homebreds. I think they just bred their own mares to him before he exported to their Japan branch. I had no idea Yoshida owned that farm [Fontainebleau], so it explains the direct connection to Shadai.

The person I had bought them from had put them in clear plastic storage bags. If you ever need anything checked out, I'll put a list of what I have. I will say the 74 copy I have is awful. It wasn't cut properly so the pages are all connected at the top right corner. So I was peaking inside when I was looking hahaha

Bloodhorse stallion directory in 1/2 inch thick hard cover 6 ring binder with cards that are half a normal page says it was printed in 1954 (weighs about 35 lbs) (its so hard to use, but has updated stud fees for 1963, I'm not sure if its complete) Does not have a directory, its just flip the cards and see if someone is in there.
Bloodhorse Stallion Directory - 73-74/82-83/85-88/90-91/93/01-02 (not sure about 1987, if might have been an add on? its only 1/4 of the size of the 86)
TB Record/TB Times Stallion Directory - 77/80/81/89-02/04/08-09
TB Record Breeders Book(size of a stallion directory has sire of winners, stakes winners, dam of stakes winners, etc. from previous year) - 80/82/83/84
Bloodhorse - Auction review 1984
Also have Names in Pedigrees (hardcover book from 1939, reprinted in 1974)

Flanders and Psychotic Parakeet
thank you both for the work you have done - Psychotic Parakeet I did send a private email yes would like to be part of your group

You maybe interested to know Maurice Zilber who trained Youth thought he was the best horse he every trained. He was a great trainer for sure .

Also of the Ribot's could be strong willed for sure talking about Con Brio . I'm a huge fan of Ribot and sire line and had a lovely mare
https://www.pedigreequery.com/ishkoodah4
homebred unfortunately let down by several people and didnt get a foal from her which was a real shame

Psychotic Parakeet wrote: ↑Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:10 am *El Centauro (ARG) died in September 1981. He stood stud for one season in the USA at Fontainebleau Farm, Inc. in Paris, Kentucky before he went to Shadai Stallion Farm in Japan. Prior to be moved around, he stood stud in Argentina. I tried looking for his information in one of my old stallion registries, and I have the year after he left the USA, and not beforehand. Ugh! Fontainebleau Farm stood Loom as a stud in 1975, so I'm trying to use that as a breadcrumb trail to figure out what else they had around the time El Centauro II was there to find the height information.

I remember well the Shadai resident El Centauro(ARG) mainly as the sire of the 1980 Tenno Sho Spring winner Nichido Taro(JPN)[1976H. o/o La Boula(USA) by Never Bend(USA)] https://www.jbis.jp/horse/0000088826/ .
Nichido Taro, trained in Kansai Area, was one of my favorite horses when I was a college student.
El Centauro was an excellent broodmare sire, too, represented by the Tenno Sho Autumn & Yasuda Kinen winner Galop Dyna(JPN)[1980H.by Northern Taste(CAN)] https://www.jbis.jp/horse/0000125443/ and MGSW Free Talk(JPN)[1985M. by Real Shadai(USA)] https://www.jbis.jp/horse/0000179032/ .
I couldn't find any photo of El Centauro in Japan on the internet, unfortunately, though.

-- replay of the 1980 Tenno Sho Spring 3200m turf at Kyoto.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFw0h4wPzRQ

Going through an old magazine I found a weird little conformation note about Seductor: "The Argentine Derby winner Seductor, who exerted a strong influence upon Haras Comalal, was also heavy topped and loaded in his shoulders. Haras Comalal has many Seductor mares with the same defect; therefore, Immortality is not a suitable sire for this stud." (April 1973 issue of The Thoroughbred of California).

Falinadin
thanks for info interesting. Any idea of his height or average winning distant of his progeny

hi, sorry, i just remembered you had requested my help. unfortunately i couldn't find anything, i tried looking through all the credible websites that i'm aware of and i couldn't locate information on them regarding their deaths. i only am familiar with Clackson given he's probably the best stallion we ever had, but searching for info on his death only brings information on Bal a Bali and his parents (his dam is by Clackson). so sorry i can't help. it can be really hard to find information on very old stallions unfortunately

brunanas thanks for trying tell me I've tried to find out old stallions not just in Brazil but Australia / NZ/Argentina and even USA with no success. Some of the stallions were multi Group/Grade 1 winners hard to believe it's not easy to find out when they died. Thanks again ..Ribot