Surprise Stallions?

[Danniwolfe]

Why are some many people surprised when stallions die mostly here in the us? Like you make the studs overweight year after year and then they wonder why they get laminitis? I dunno farms,you're supposed to be the expert here,who could have seen that coming? Keeping studs overweight not working them year after year,I swear those farms need to get their head out their booties.

[Mylute]

lol

[Falinadin]

? The only stallions who have passed recently from laminitis are Frost Giant and Lord Nelson, who both got it while or just after being on the track. I also suspect City Zip may have had it based on photos, though articles just said he had a "chronic foot issue". The others have been cardiac deaths, neurological diseases, paddock accidents, colic, etc. And just plain old age.
I do wish that more farms would ride their stallions though, I think it might be better for their minds.

[BaroqueAgain1]

It is undoubtedly a more interesting life for a stallion to be given some challenges for the mind....but then there are those who really don't want to play the 'human on top of me' game anymore.
I remember reading that they had to stop trying to ride Point Given when he made his opinion so clear that it was going to be dangerous to push him.
I wonder if the increased possibility that a stallion might get rank under saddle, thus increasing the chance of injury, has made farms get more conservative with their horses.

[Mylute]

How many stallions are dying of just laminitis every year? The only one I can think of is Lord Nelson, but that was unique and unrelated to his weight. Most are dying of heart attacks and colic or they get euthanized due to numerous ailments + age. Heart attacks
are particularly common not because of weight but because of the nature of what they are doing.

If people are “surprised” when a stud dies, it’s usually because they were objectively very young, like Laoban. Also who really goes about their day expecting to get news that a stud has died? Of course everyone was stunned when we got news that Performer
died shortly after retirement.

How many of them even develop laminitis as stallions?

There are many ways a horse can develop laminitis apart from weight.

As a stallion ages, especially once they breach 20, they are more likely to contract/develop all manner of medical issues no matter their weight. Additionally, weight gets harder to manage as they age. This goes both ways: it can be hard to keep weight off of a horse and to keep it on.

Aside from Claiborne, I can't really think of an operation that allows their studs to get fat consistently. But how many of their boys die of laminitis? There was Secretariat but that was 30+ years ago, and he was nearing his 20s anyway IIRC.

[ThreeMustangs]

Bernardini was euthanized due to laminitis last year.

[Squeaky]

Why are some many people surprised when stallions die mostly here in the us? Like you make the studs overweight year after year and then they wonder why they get laminitis? I dunno farms,you're supposed to be the expert here,who could have seen that coming? Keeping studs overweight not working them year after year,I swear those farms need to get their head out their booties.

Feeding them large amounts of grain also not a good idea. I remember Seattle Slew was cantered every day under saddle on his own track until he developed cervical spine issues. The Japanese stallions don’t seem to get as heavy as our stallions- wonder how they are managed differently?

[Northport]

Why are some many people surprised when stallions die mostly here in the us? Like you make the studs overweight year after year and then they wonder why they get laminitis? I dunno farms,you're supposed to be the expert here,who could have seen that coming? Keeping studs overweight not working them year after year,I swear those farms need to get their head out their booties.

Feeding them large amounts of grain also not a good idea. I remember Seattle Slew was cantered every day under saddle on his own track until he developed cervical spine issues. The Japanese stallions don’t seem to get as heavy as our stallions- wonder how they are managed differently?

I know Shadai lunges their stallions in a round pen every day. The round pen has really deep sand footing so that definitely would burn some calories.

[Retrospectiv]

Lanes End is another that's had a lot of tubby, overweight stallions.
The culture of dumping literal buckets of sweet feed to them several times a day seems hard to break in Ky stud farms, and science has been proving for years how detrimental to the health that is for most horses. Especially those living a liesurely lifestyle. And there's plenty of feeding time videos of just that, buckets full of sweet feed being fed to them.
That predisposes a lot of horses to early metabolic and IR issues. I'd say doubly for those air ferns from that Seattle Slew/Indy line. The news of Bernardini was no shock to many.
Yes, yes.... they have word class vets and nutritionists. But that doesn't seem to override tradition mindset in feeding.

Most stallions in Europe and Japan look much fitter and better than their US counterparts.

[BaroqueAgain1]

IIRC, the 'bluegrass' in the Bluegrass State has the reputation of having great nutritional qualities, especially minerals. Is it possible that Kentucky stallions are getting more nutrition (calories?) just spending all day grazing their lush pastures?

[Northport]

You’d think they would muzzle the ones that gorge themselves on grass. We have to do that with our 20 year old fella in the springtime when the grass is extra lush. Helps reduce risk of colic too.

But, like it has been mentioned, if they’d still getting 4-6 scoops a day of sweetfeed, then diets may just not be on the radar of some operations.

[BaroqueAgain1]

I wonder if some of those feedings are bribes the stallion barn managers use to 'manage' difficult or nervous horses. If the horse knows that he gets a treat after being obedient for a groom, maybe you get more compliance from them?

[TapitsGal]

I wonder if some of those feedings are bribes the stallion barn managers use to 'manage' difficult or nervous horses. If the horse knows that he gets a treat after being obedient for a groom, maybe you get more compliance from them?

It worked for the morab mare I used to ride when she needed to be tacked up. She had a habit of trying to bite lesson students when you tightened the girth but if you let her graze while you tightened the girth, you avoided a nasty bite

[TapitsGal]

Why are some many people surprised when stallions die mostly here in the us? Like you make the studs overweight year after year and then they wonder why they get laminitis? I dunno farms,you're supposed to be the expert here,who could have seen that coming? Keeping studs overweight not working them year after year,I swear those farms need to get their head out their booties.

Feeding them large amounts of grain also not a good idea. I remember Seattle Slew was cantered every day under saddle on his own track until he developed cervical spine issues. The Japanese stallions don’t seem to get as heavy as our stallions- wonder how they are managed differently?

I know Shadai lunges their stallions in a round pen every day. The round pen has really deep sand footing so that definitely would burn some calories.

I've also seen videos on Facebook of Creator, Animal Kingdom,Makfi, Noble Mission etc being exercised under saddle in an indoor arena

[swale1984]

Feeding them large amounts of grain also not a good idea. I remember Seattle Slew was cantered every day under saddle on his own track until he developed cervical spine issues. The Japanese stallions don’t seem to get as heavy as our stallions- wonder how they are managed differently?

I know Shadai lunges their stallions in a round pen every day. The round pen has really deep sand footing so that definitely would burn some calories.

I've also seen videos on Facebook of Creator, Animal Kingdom,Makfi, Noble Mission etc being exercised under saddle in an indoor arena

I love those videos; really makes you appreciate the way some of them just float around. I love watching AK just trot around...he practically floats.

[Falinadin]

Idk, I think some of this is confirmatory bias. Yes, some stallions die young and it is terrible, and I'm sure there are cases where feeding may be part of the problem. But there are also many stallions who live to be a ripe old age, including at some of the farms mentioned above. Lane's End got Indy to 31, and still have his son Mineshaft at 23. They also still have Langfuhr who turned 30 today, and Lemon Drop Kid at 26. Kingmambo was 26 when he passed. Gulch spent most of his life at Lane's End before going to Old Friends, and he died at 32. Dixieland Band passed at 30. Fit to Fight was 29. Belong to Me was 31. Lord Avie spent most of his stud life at Lane's End before moving on, he passed at 34. They have Candy Ride at 23.
At Claiborne, Danzig got to 29, and Lure to 28, Seeking the Gold to 31. They had Polish Navy for most of his life, he died at 27. Flatter is 23.
Darley euthanized Quiet American at 30, Hill n' Dale had Theatrical die at 30. Three Chimneys got Dynaformer and Slew o' Gold to 27.
Storm Cat died at 30. Old Friends has Afternoon Deelites (30 yrs old), Touch Gold (28, had been at Adena Springs), and had Alphabet Soup who just passed at 31 after also being at Adena Springs for his stud career.
Swain should be 30 this year. More Than Ready and Include are 25 and still standing stud. Distorted Humor is 29. Freud and Speightstown are 24. Medaglia d'Oro is 23.
All of these farms have also lost young stallions too, none of them have perfect records, but they've gotten their share of horses to old ages.

As I looked all this up, I would say most stallions seem to pass between 23-27, which imo is average for a Thoroughbred. My own OTTB passed at 26. But for the ones that pass early, there are also ones that go past average. Honestly I'm somewhat impressed with Lane's End getting 6 stallions to 30+ (with some help of Old Friends).

Again, I'm not trying to say that all stud farms are perfect. I do wish they'd exercise them a bit more. But I also think it's a bit disingenuous to make blanket statements that all American stud farms feed badly and have their studs die early. I mean, in Europe Galileo died at 23, Danehill at 17 in an accident, Shamardal at 18. In Japan Sunday Silence died at 16, King Kamehameha at 18, Deep Impact at 17. It happens : /