Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

This is obviously a hypothetical question but Coolmore could possibly find themselves in the unique situation of standing 3 triple crown winners at the same farm(if Tiz the law wins the derby and Preakness like many are predicting or thinking he will). That I can remember I don't know if any stud farm has ever stood 3 living American triple crown winners at the same farm at the same time so coolmore could possibly make history there. But IF tiz the law wins the triple crown, which of the three winners do you breed to? For me I'd breed to tiz the law or American Pharoah over justify. I like Tiz the Laws sire constitution and I like his bloodlines. I like the fact that tiz has held up sound through a tough three year old campaign so far and that Barclay Tagg is training him. I like Tiz the Laws conformation and if Tiz the law wins the derby, Preakness and classic one could argue that with a three year old campaign consisting of Florida derby, Belmont, Travers, derby, Preakness and classic wins is damn impressive. That would be 7 gr 1 wins in a single season if the horse can accomplish it and I'm not sure we would ever see another three year old accomplish that.

American Pharoah- I'd send a mare to him next. I love his conformation and he has a lovely temperament. He raced in 9 grade 1 races in his two and three year old season and won 8 of them. He's a proven sire and has thrown winners on turf and dirt on three continents (north American,Europe, and Asia). His babies are durable and have proven they can run. Pharoah himself was a versatile horse and if I recall correctly Pharoah was also sound and retired sound. I know they had a hard time filling his book when he first went to stud and that a lot of deals were cut but I think that had more to do with the fact that coolmore priced his fee wayyy to high than anything.

Justify- I wouldn't breed to him. I just wouldn't. I'm not too impressed with him conformation wise and I feel he has too many soundness issues for me to comfortably send a mare to him. He didn't race at all at two and he only raced six times at three. He won the triple crown but my impression is that he wasn't the soundest racing. It seemed like bob had to keep him patched together with duct tape in between races and I still remember how ouchy/lame justify seemed the morning after his derby win. He won the Belmont and then never raced again. He had to be retired because of a bad ankle(inflammation in his ankle). He seems to wear patches and some heavy shoeing on his front hooves now at stud and that raises concerns in me that justify has some on going soundness issues that he could pass on. I'm also concerned that the breeders arent liking what they see from his foals already on the ground. It seems like coolmore is having to market justify HARD down in Australia in order to get enough breeder interest to make it worth shuttling him which makes me think that he's so far not a hit in Australia and the breeders just aren't liking what they see.

Yes Justify has foals on the ground, but he hasn't yet had a runner hit the track which makes him still unproven. If I had to send a mare to an unproven sire and I could ONLY choose between justify or Tiz the law...I think I'd end up sending a mare to tiz the law over justify anyday

I really like Tiz the Law and I’m a big fan of Tiznow. I think he has put together a fantastic season and hope he wins both the a Derby and the Preakness for the Triple Crown.

I don't think this is answerable without knowing the mare.

Katewerk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm I don't think this is answerable without knowing the mare.

Very true, but I sometimes think that has less do with it than it should, even with "professional" breeders. At this point it is just about tapping into the buzzy zeitgeist of the first crops and then moving on. How else to explain when you see mares going to such disparately bred and conformed stallions with the main justification apparently being this is the new "it" freshman stallion.

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:14 pm

Katewerk wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:11 pm I don't think this is answerable without knowing the mare.

Very true, but I sometimes think that has less do with it than it should, even with "professional" breeders. At this point it is just about tapping into the buzzy zeitgeist of the first crops and then moving on. How else to explain when you see mares going to such disparately bred and conformed stallions with the main justification apparently being this is the new "it" freshman stallion.

I'm well past a dozen generations as a breeder of purebred dogs, so it's the only thing I consider. There is no ideal generic sire, only a selection from those that best compliment the dam.

I do think a thread that asks which mare you'd like to own and who you'd breed her to would be interesting, though.

Anything that isn't Justify.

Tiz the Law, hands down. Better quality mares top and bottom on his pedigree. No ranking for me. He's the only one of those three I'd even consider.

Completely depends on the mare and what I want to do with the foal. Is the goal to sell as a weanling or yearling or 2yo? Keep and race and then sell if a filly? Keep and retain as a broodmare if a filly? Does the mare have any international appeal? If I have a Galileo mare I'm not breeding her to Tiz the Law, I'm breeding her to AP with his Euro performers or Justify with his Scat Daddy blood. Which between the two I pick would depend on the size of the mare and precocity. TTL's first crop will be selling as yearlings in 2023. That year will be when Justify's first crop will be 3, and he wasn't a super precocious horse. So if I'm thinking commercial, I might chose TTL

Falinadin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:17 am Completely depends on the mare and what I want to do with the foal. Is the goal to sell as a weanling or yearling or 2yo? Keep and race and then sell if a filly? Keep and retain as a broodmare if a filly? Does the mare have any international appeal? If I have a Galileo mare I'm not breeding her to Tiz the Law, I'm breeding her to AP with his Euro performers or Justify with his Scat Daddy blood. Which between the two I pick would depend on the size of the mare and precocity. TTL's first crop will be selling as yearlings in 2023. That year will be when Justify's first crop will be 3, and he wasn't a super precocious horse. So if I'm thinking commercial, I might chose TTL

Please post here more often. That was refreshing.

TapitsGal wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:18 am and if Tiz the law wins the derby, Preakness and classic one could argue that with a three year old campaign consisting of Florida derby, Belmont, Travers, derby, Preakness and classic wins is damn impressive. That would be 7 gr 1 wins in a single season if the horse can accomplish it and I'm not sure we would ever see another three year old accomplish that.

A bit off topic but.... Point Given did all that except the Derby, but also won the Haskell. He did sire some excellent runners - Go Between, Sealy Hill, Point Ashley, Coil - but never seemed to get the mare support he deserved.

Della wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:31 pm

TapitsGal wrote: ↑Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:18 am and if Tiz the law wins the derby, Preakness and classic one could argue that with a three year old campaign consisting of Florida derby, Belmont, Travers, derby, Preakness and classic wins is damn impressive. That would be 7 gr 1 wins in a single season if the horse can accomplish it and I'm not sure we would ever see another three year old accomplish that.

A bit off topic but.... Point Given did all that except the Derby, but also won the Haskell. He did sire some excellent runners - Go Between, Sealy Hill, Point Ashley, Coil - but never seemed to get the mare support he deserved.

Point Given was a tough physical match and Gulch sire line was one of the few Mr P off shoots that had moments, but was not stellar.

Katewerk wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:07 am Please post here more often. That was refreshing.

Haha will do. I've bred goats for almost 20 years now, and I completely agree with you that there is no one generic sire that fits all dams. I have one live buck in my goat herd and 5 different bucks in my semen tank because I choose the male that compliments the female.
I also think that having a thread about what stud we'd breed a specific mare to would be interesting. I might make that my weekend project...

Of those, I like Tiz The Law and Justify. Other than that, I like Constitution, Into Mischief, Galileo, and Tapit. Of course, there are other very good ones that I can't think of right now.