Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

Spendtrift just released two..

Into Mischief-$175,000 (Booked Full)
Maximus Mischief-$7,500.. just no

My dumb question:

Why are some fees listed as 'private?' Is it because they don't want to scare breeders away by listing some exorbitant sum?

Starine wrote: ↑Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:34 pm My dumb question:

Why are some fees listed as 'private?' Is it because they don't want to scare breeders away by listing some exorbitant sum?

That's one reason. It's also possible that a stallion's fee turned out to be overshot, but the connections wanted to save face rather than lower the fee... I believe this was the case with Bernardini at one point? And IIRC Awesome Again's fee was listed as private as his books became significantly smaller; not that he was overpriced.

Too Darn Hot for £50,000? No thanks. He's impeccably bred, and I guess he does have 3 G1 wins... but... meh, he was retired unsound halfway through his 3 year old season.

Maybe in 10 years 50k will seem like a steal. He definitely has the world at his feet.

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/b ... ucFVJa5Dwo

DARLEY 2020 FEES
(2019 fees in brackets)

Dalham Hall Stud

Dubawi £250,000 (£250,000)
Too Darn Hot £50,000 (NEW)
Golden Horn £40,000 (£50,000)
Iffraaj £30,000 (£35,000)
New Approach £30,000 (£30,000)
Cracksman £25,000 (£25,000)
Harry Angel £20,000 (£20,000)
Masar £15,000 (NEW)
Farhh £12,000 (£10,000)
Territories £12,000 (£12,000)
Postponed £10,000 (£15,000)
Charming Thought £5,000 (£6,000)
Outstrip £5,000 (£5,000)

Kildangan Stud

Shamardal private (private)
Blue Point €45,000 (NEW)
Exceed And Excel €40,000 (€50,000)
Teofilo €40,000 (€40,000)
Night Of Thunder €25,000 (£15,000)
Ribchester €20,000 (€25,000)
Fast Company €12,000 (€12,000)
Profitable €12,000 (€12,000)
Belardo €10,000 (€10,000)
Dawn Approach €10,000 (€15,000)
Raven's Pass €10,000 (€10,000)
Slade Power €7,500 (€7,500)
The Last Lion €7,500 (€7,500)
Buratino €5,000 (€5,000)
French Navy €4,000 (€4,000)
Fulbright €4,000 (€4,000)

Haras du Logis

Authorized €12,000 (€12,000)
Cloth Of Stars €7,500 (€7,500)
Manduro €7,000 (€7,000)
Ultra €7,000 (€7,000)
Bow Creek €4,000 (€4,000)
Hunter's Light €4,000 (€4,000)

Coolmore 2020 covering fees (2019 fee)

Australia €27,500 (€35,000)
Calyx* €22,500
Camelot €40,000 (€40,000)
Caravaggio €40,000 (€35,000)
Churchill €30,000 (€35,000)
Fastnet Rock €60,000 (€70,000)
Footstepsinthesand €15,000 (€10,000)
Galileo private (private)
Gleneagles €35,000 (€30,000)
Gustav Klimt €6,000 (€7,500)
Highland Reel €12,500 (€17,500)
Holy Roman Emperor €15,000 (€15,000)
Magna Grecia €22,500*
Mastercraftsman €25,000 (€30,000)
No Nay Never €150,000 (€100,000)
Rock Of Gibraltar €6,000 (€7,500)
Saxon Warrior €27,500 (€30,000)
Sioux Nation €12,500 (€12,500)
Starspangledbanner €22,500 (€17,500)
Ten Sovereigns €25,000*
The Gurkha €12,500 (€17,500)
US Navy Flag €17,500 (€25,000)
Zoffany €22,500 (€25,000)

American Pharoah - $135,000. Coolmore updated their webpage with his fee.

https://coolmore.com/farms/america/stal ... an-pharoah

Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:39 am American Pharoah - $135,000. Coolmore updated their webpage with his fee.

https://coolmore.com/farms/america/stal ... an-pharoah

It's certainly far less than the 200,000 fee he had his first year at stud

TapitsGal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:15 am

Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:39 am American Pharoah - $135,000. Coolmore updated their webpage with his fee.

https://coolmore.com/farms/america/stal ... an-pharoah

It's certainly far less than the 200,000 fee he had his first year at stud

Yes but they were making deals his first year, doing a 2 for 1 deal on approved mares. Then he stood for private in 2017 and 2018 and $110,000 in 2019.

Aga Khan Fees

Sea the Stars up to €150,000 (from €135,000) after 4 G1 winners in 2019
Siyouni - €100,000 (unchanged)
Harzand €8,000 (from €10,000)
Dariyan - €8,000 (unchanged)
Zarak - €12,000 (unchanged)

Irish National Stud 2020 covering fees (2019 fees)

Decorated Knight €9,000 (€12,000)
Dragon Pulse €6,000 (€6,000)
Elusive Pimpernel €3,000 (€1,000)
Famous Name €1,000 (€1,000)
Free Eagle €12,500 (€12,500)
Invincible Spirit €100,000 (€120,000)
National Defense €8,000 (€8,000)
Palavicini €1,000 (private)
Phoenix Of Spain €15,000*

Flanders wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:39 am American Pharoah - $135,000. Coolmore updated their webpage with his fee.

https://coolmore.com/farms/america/stal ... an-pharoah

They changed it to $175,000.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... at-175-000

Sequel New York

Stephanoatsee - Private
Destin - $5,000
Laoban - $5,000
Mission Impazible - $5,000
The Lieutenant - $5,000
Union Jackson - $5,000
Freud - $6,500

~ That's a whole lotta G1 quality for a whole lotta nothing with Freud.

Mylute wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:38 pm Sequel New York

Stephanoatsee - Private
Destin - $5,000
Laoban - $5,000
Mission Impazible - $5,000
The Lieutenant - $5,000
Union Jackson - $5,000
Freud - $6,500

~ That's a whole lotta G1 quality for a whole lotta nothing with Freud.

And yet people will still send their better mares to completely unproven sires for 10x that. Just because they can sell them, versus Freud being way too "useful" a sire to actually be fashionable at the sales.

-- from TDN

''Lord Kanaloa Anchors 2020 Shadai Roster and Fees''
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/l ... -and-fees/


-- full list of Shadai Stallions in order of 2020 Stud Fees:

Stud Fee 2020 (in JPY) : Sire Name (Sire of Sire)

20,000,000 : Lord Kanaloa(JPN) (King Kamehameha)
10,000,000 : Heart's Cry(JPN) (Sunday Silence)
7,000,000 : Duramente(JPN) (King Kamehameha)
6,000,000 : Bricks and Mortar(USA) (Giant's Causeway)
6,000,000 : Daiwa Major(JPN) (Sunday Silence)
6,000,000 : Harbinger(GB) (Dansili)
6,000,000 : Kizuna(JPN) (Deep Impact)
6,000,000 : Rulership (King Kamehameha)
5,000,000 : Epiphaneia(JPN) (Symboli Kris S)
4,000,000 : Just a Way(JPN) (Heart's Cry)
4,000,000 : Kitasan Black(JPN) (Black Tide)
4,000,000 : Maurice(JPN) (Screen Hero)
3,000,000 : Drefong(USA) (Gio Ponti)
3,000,000 : New Year's Day(USA) (Street Cry)
3,000,000 : Orfevre(JPN) (Stay Gold)
3,000,000 : Satono Diamond(JPN) (Deep Impact)
2,500,000 : Kinshasa no Kiseki(AUS) (Fuji Kiseki)
2,500,000 : Real Steel(JPN) (Deep Impact)
2,000,000 : Mind Your Biscuits(USA) (Posse)
2,000,000 : Real Impact(JPN) (Deep Impact)
1,500,000 : Isla Bonita(JPN) (Fuji Kiseki)
1,500,000 : Mikki Isle(JPN) (Deep Impact)
1,500,000 : Novellist(IRE) (Monsun)
1,500,000 : Satono Crown(JPN) (Marju)
1,000,000 : Satono Aladdin(JPN) (Deep Impact)
800,000 : Logotype(JPN) (Lohengrin)
800,000 : Red Falx(JPN) (Swept Overboard)
500,000 : Reach the Crown(JPN) (Special Week)

private : Dream Journey(JPN) (Stay Gold)

Where is Mshwaish? He's missing from Taylor mades roster

TapitsGal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:03 am Where is Mshwaish? He's missing from Taylor mades roster

Apparently in Louisiana.

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:48 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:38 pm Sequel New York

Stephanoatsee - Private
Destin - $5,000
Laoban - $5,000
Mission Impazible - $5,000
The Lieutenant - $5,000
Union Jackson - $5,000
Freud - $6,500

~ That's a whole lotta G1 quality for a whole lotta nothing with Freud.

And yet people will still send their better mares to completely unproven sires for 10x that. Just because they can sell them, versus Freud being way too "useful" a sire to actually be fashionable at the sales.

So I'm struggling to understand what point you are making. Are you bashing all breeders who chose to not breed to Freud last year?? I mean does that make the 56 who did the smart ones?

I'm confused.

Horsebagger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:26 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:48 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:38 pm Sequel New York

Stephanoatsee - Private
Destin - $5,000
Laoban - $5,000
Mission Impazible - $5,000
The Lieutenant - $5,000
Union Jackson - $5,000
Freud - $6,500

~ That's a whole lotta G1 quality for a whole lotta nothing with Freud.

And yet people will still send their better mares to completely unproven sires for 10x that. Just because they can sell them, versus Freud being way too "useful" a sire to actually be fashionable at the sales.

So I'm struggling to understand what point you are making. Are you bashing all breeders who chose to not breed to Freud last year?? I mean does that make the 56 who did the smart ones?

I'm confused.

Well, considering he has 6% BTW to RA foals lifetime and an AEI of 1.51 off a 1.23 CI, then yes I do think breeders using him are smart. His yearlings average $33K. Comparatively, you have a stallion like Street Sense who stands at $75000 whose lifetime BTW % is also 6% and who has an AEI of 1.53 off a CI of 1.78.His yearlings average $119K. Other proven stallions with similar stats-- More Than Ready, Malibu Moon, Empire Maker, Union Rags. As for unproven, there are plenty to chose from.

I guess my point is why do breeders bemoan how difficult it is to make a living and buyers/owners bemoan how most horses are a losing proposition when they keep feeding into such an a ridiculous financial scheme rather than supporting at least a slightly more fiscally sound policy? It just seems so many are gunning for the lottery pick.

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:13 pm

Horsebagger wrote: ↑Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:26 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:48 pm
And yet people will still send their better mares to completely unproven sires for 10x that. Just because they can sell them, versus Freud being way too "useful" a sire to actually be fashionable at the sales.

So I'm struggling to understand what point you are making. Are you bashing all breeders who chose to not breed to Freud last year?? I mean does that make the 56 who did the smart ones?

I'm confused.

Well, considering he has 6% BTW to RA foals lifetime and an AEI of 1.51 off a 1.23 CI, then yes I do think breeders using him are smart. His yearlings average $33K. Comparatively, you have a stallion like Street Sense who stands at $75000 whose lifetime BTW % is also 6% and who has an AEI of 1.53 off a CI of 1.78.His yearlings average $119K. Other proven stallions with similar stats-- More Than Ready, Malibu Moon, Empire Maker, Union Rags. As for unproven, there are plenty to chose from.

I guess my point is why do breeders bemoan how difficult it is to make a living and buyers/owners bemoan how most horses are a losing proposition when they keep feeding into such an a ridiculous financial scheme rather than supporting at least a slightly more fiscally sound policy? It just seems so many are gunning for the lottery pick.

And Freud is the equivalent of a 30-year Treasury Bond? Yet only 56 mares bred this past season.

I think you're overestimating what he brings to the table. Or I'm still confused. Either one could be true, I guess.

Horsebagger - i know you're a breeder, so i have a (serious, no sarcasm) question.

if Freud's stats are so similar to the other stallions listed that command so much more money, why isn't he commanding the same? what makes him less desirable?

i'm not a breeder, but i do want to learn!