Black Thoroughbreds

Cigar · Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:30 pm

Please repost any info that you recall posting from before the crash.

tachyon · Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:00 pm

I start with the Roses in May colt Dream Valentino!!

Dream Valentino(JPN), 2007H. Roses in May(USA) x Cosmo Valenti(JPN) by Meiner Love(USA)
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001049453/

The mutiple graded winner & mulitiple G1 placed has finished 2nd to Espoir City in the JBC Sprint (Jpn1) in his first test on the dirt on Nov 4.

-- replay of JBC Sprint 1400m dirt at Kanazawa on Nov 4.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEaC4V1FVtw
1st. (#12) Espoir Ciy
2nd. (#7) Dream Valentino

-- result of JBC Sprint
http://www.jbis.jp/race/result/20131104/222/09/

Ridan_Remembered · Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:01 pm

Nice-looking horse, but doesn't appear to be a true black. True black is very rare in Thoroughbreds. Why this is, I don't know, but it is. Most Thoroughbreds that appear black will almost always have some brown in the coat and, of course, many grays are born black but begin showing gray pretty early.

aethervox · Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:33 pm

Ridan_Remembered wrote:Nice-looking horse, but doesn't appear to be a true black. True black is very rare in Thoroughbreds. Why this is, I don't know, but it is. Most Thoroughbreds that appear black will almost always have some brown in the coat and, of course, many grays are born black but begin showing gray pretty early.

True black requires two recessive Agouti genes (they're the ones that cause bay). Agouti only acts on a black coat, so can be passed on by chestnuts, who won't show any sign of it.

There's a color calculator at http://www.horsetesting.com/CCalculator1.asp for those interested.

Ridan_Remembered · Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:05 pm

Thank you for the calculator, although -- for me anyway -- it just confuses things. All I know is horses that appear black often have brown in the coat, usually on the flanks, belly, chest behind the elbows/shoulder, and muzzle. Here is a photo of a Freisan stallion who is true black with no brown anywhere in the coat. Of course, I'm talking about appearance, not genetics.

In 53 years of involvement with this sport I have never seen a true black Thoroughbred, although I have no doubt the color could exist in the breed. As rare as it is, true white and even albino seems to show up more often in Thoroughbreds than true black. Sunday Silence, who I saw numerous times in person during his racing days, was the closest to true black as I've ever seen. He stamped his get a lot, so many of his offspring were very dark. Possibly a small number were true black.

Sunday Silence at Pimlico before the Preakness in 1989.

Miss Woodford · Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:10 pm

Dream Valentino (Roses in May x Cosmo Valenti by Meiner Love) certainly looks true black to me.
http://db.netkeiba.com/horse/pic/2007104877/

And Roses in May himself

BaroqueAgain1 · Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:02 pm

Roses In May is gorgeous! Between him and Sunday, it's not surprising that the fields in Japanese races have a decidedly dark hue to them.

Cigar · Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:34 pm

Devil His Due looked true black to me, as did Halo.

Ridan_Remembered · Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:59 pm

Miss Woodford wrote:Dream Valentino (Roses in May x Cosmo Valenti by Meiner Love) certainly looks true black to me.

Roses in May definitely looks true black in that photo as there doesn't appear to be any brown in the usual places where brown usually shows in otherwise black-looking horses.

Halo was registered as a black, but in this photo you can see brown in the hair in his ears, his forelock, on his muzzle, behind his shoulder/elbow, and on his flank. By the way, Halo wore a muzzle a lot, even in his paddock, because he was truly vicious. Halo tended to pass on his dark coat color and, often, his nasty temperament.

Life At Zen · Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:59 am

Black coats do fade in sunlight, too, sometimes giving the appearance of brown hairs.

Cigar · Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:55 pm

I know people and cats with black hair that gets a brownish tint when they are outdoor alot.

Miss Woodford · Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:30 pm

More black TBs

Improvise (War Emblem x Cadenza by Sunday Silence)
http://db.netkeiba.com/newdb/?pid=horse ... 2010104401

Statue of Liberty (Storm Cat x Charming Lassie by Seattle Slew)

Manhattan Cafe (Sunday Silence x Subtle Change by Law Society)

Black Tuxedo (Sunday Silence x O P Cat by Storm Cat)

Fuji Kiseki (Sunday Silence x Millracer by Le Fabuleux)

Wave Orchid (War Emblem x Danse Noir by Sunday Silence)

Katewerk · Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:13 am

A black was racing at Marquis Downs about 3 years ago, I think owned by a very small time owner. He wasn't very fast, but he carried himself like a parade horse. I should dig around and get his name.

Cigar · Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:04 pm

Midnight Explosion is entered on November 15, 2013 at RETAMA PARK.

Your comments for this horse were: ''01 reg black geld Pyramid Peak x Battle ofthe Bands

Full Entries for Race

Race: 4 - 8:36 PM

second_glance · Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:49 am

T C H Warrior, registered black TB, 5yo, available at Finger Lakes. More info here: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 766&type=1

Cigar · Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:18 am

Thanks for the heads up on TCH. He's been in my VS for awhile so seeing a pic is icing on the cake.

Here's another black from yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Cigar · Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:56 pm

Katewerk wrote:A black was racing at Marquis Downs about 3 years ago, I think owned by a very small time owner. He wasn't very fast, but he carried himself like a parade horse. I should dig around and get his name.

Did you ever find the name?

tachyon · Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:51 am

Rosa Gigantea(JPN), 2011 black colt. Fuji Kiseki(JPN) x Turfrose(GER) by Big Shuffle(USA), won in the G2 Spring Stakes 1800m turf at Nakayama March 23rd 2014 defeating Juvenile champion colt last year Asia Express(USA).
He will be sent off one of the top favorites in the Japanese 2000 Guineas (Satsuki Sho)(G1) next month.
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001142789/
His dam Turfrose(GER) was a G1 winner in Italy.

-- replay of the Spring Stakes (G2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Ds3iEz_EY
1st. #2 Rosa Gigantea(JPN) C3
2nd. #4 Asia Express(USA) C3 Henny Hughes x Running Bobcats
3rd. #10 Clarity City(JPN) C3 King Kamehameha x Taiki Clarity

Katewerk · Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:49 am

Cigar wrote:
Katewerk wrote:A black was racing at Marquis Downs about 3 years ago, I think owned by a very small time owner. He wasn't very fast, but he carried himself like a parade horse. I should dig around and get his name.
Did you ever find the name?

I did try, but came up empty, sorry.

Northport · Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:58 pm

tachyon wrote:Rosa Gigantea(JPN), 2011 black colt. Fuji Kiseki(JPN) x Turfrose(GER) by Big Shuffle(USA), won in the G2 Spring Stakes 1800m turf at Nakayama March 23rd 2014 defeating Juvenile champion colt last year Asia Express(USA).
He will be sent off one of the top favorites in the Japanese 2000 Guineas (Satsuki Sho)(G1) next month.
http://www.jbis.jp/horse/0001142789/
His dam Turfrose(GER) was a G1 winner in Italy.

-- replay of the Spring Stakes (G2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3Ds3iEz_EY
1st. #2 Rosa Gigantea(JPN) C3
2nd. #4 Asia Express(USA) C3 Henny Hughes x Running Bobcats
3rd. #10 Clarity City(JPN) C3 King Kamehameha x Taiki Clarity

I came here right after I watched the replay to see if this one was black - he's gorgeous!