Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

War Front did much better than Bernardini did last year and Bernardini's fee did not change. Thus, last year Bernardini never got higher than 50 on the general sire list, and he spent the entire year at number 55. I think Claiborne is better at valuing their stallions, so I am thinking they may reduce War Front to 100.

As for Tapit, I agree with you that he will probably be in the 200k range, and people will pay it. Hard Spun may be around 40 I think, but to me they will try to price him in a similar range or a bit below his primary peers (Curlin and Street Sense).

From the "Stallion News" thread:

mariasmon wrote:

Twingo wrote:

This year in the US War Front's advertised service fee was $US150,000. But Coolmore's James Bester said this week breeders were paying up to $US300,000 ($320,000) to get a booking to the stallion.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing ... z3CGuHG5Ie

I heard of someone paying MORE than twice the advertised fee for a NG season to War Front.

Also, Sid Fernando posted this on werkhorse.com:

"The latest great-young-sire-in-the-making at Claiborne under the Walker Hancock era is, of course, War Front, a son of Danzig. He stood the 2014 season at $150,000 live foal—if you could actually get a farm season to him—and he will stand in 2015 at something far higher than that because No Guarantee seasons to him are trading at between $250,000 and $300,000. Yes, you read correctly."

If War Front has another couple of home runs at KeeSept, I think there is no way his fee goes down. His fee will be at least $200K.

I think his limited book of around 90 mares (when Tapit will cover 150 or more) is going to continue to create demand for War Front. Considering how few seasons are actually available to outside breeders, people are going to pay whatever the fee is. I didn't count how many of his mares from this year were Coolmore-connected, but I bet it was 1/3 of his total book. Maybe more.

For every expensive War Front Coolmore has bought at auction, there was likely an underbidder or 2.

Antony Beck, Gainesway Farm

We didn’t radically increase his stud fee immediately, but every year, it’s gone up or at least stayed the same. This year, I think he was the co-highest-priced stallion standing in North America [tied with War Front at $150,000], and I think next year, his fee is most likely going to go up again.”

http://www.drf.com/news/keeneland-septe ... ntony-beck

I expect these to be higher next year

-Curlin
-Pioneer of the Nile
-Old Fashioned
-Super Saver

Most of the Darley stallions are overpriced... in USA, in Europe, in Australia.

Bernardini's right fee for me (2014,2015)- $50k, he did nothing in last two years in North America, but Darley still thinks he is in elite division.

Agreed about Pioneerof The Nile jumping to mayyybee around 30k, and Super Saver up to 20-25k. I'm with everyone else who says that Tapit should be 200k. War Front's fee will probably rise, even though, as others have said, he has done more in the auction ring than on the track this year.

Darley always prices a bit too high, and while Bernardini should have been at 50k two years ago, I could see them dropping him to 80k this year, or just leaving him at 100k and doing some negotiations with breeders. Hard Spun will probably be 70k, given that he was standing for 60k his last year in Kentucky.

Into Mischief must be due a significant rise. He has done great with few runners.

War Front's fee will not go down. His offspring run well on the grass and the Europeans will be spending big on his better yearlings.

Ultimately the Keenland averages will determine 2015 stud fees.

Sires with increases:

Tapit - 200k
War Front - 200k
Curlin - 70k
Into Mischief - 50k
Pioneer of the Nile - 30k
Old Fashioned - 15k
Silver City - 4k

Sires with decreases:

Bernardini - 70k
Street Cry - 70k
Distorted Humor - 70k

frankel13 wrote:Street Cry - 70k

I hope he just makes it back to good health. Looks like he might miss the southern hemisphere season, last I read

War Front's stud fee has little to do with his performance on the North American Stud list. The Euro demand for his babies is all that matters.

He also isn't doing bad this year. While he might not have the G1SWs this year, he still has 8 SWs from 125 starters. He also has a very respectable 9% Stakes Winners from horses of racing age.

War Front should only move up even more the next couple years when his babies from better mares start hitting the track.

You have to factor in the global appeal that War Front has, something Tapit lacks.

The reason that he's far down the sires list in USA is because Coolmore and others have plenty of his best horses in Europe, indeed War Front seems a better turf stallion than on dirt.

tonno100 wrote:The reason that he's far down the sires list in USA is because Coolmore and others have plenty of his best horses in Europe, indeed War Front seems a better turf stallion than on dirt.

No because the leading sire list takes into account European earnings. Its because he only has 125 starters while many of the stallions above him half twice as many, if not more(there are only 2 stallions above him who have less starters, Ghostzapper(120) and Lucky Pulpit(61). He also hasn't had any G1 winners yet this year, though I'm hopeful as Pontchatrain is working again.

War Front had 3 winners on the day yesterday at Belmont.

Just because he isn't #1 or #2 this year, doesn't mean he's dead in the water. Look at the list of SW's he's got going- some very good horses. I also think it is important to recognize that Tapit is having an exceptional year, his 3-year-olds are good this year. I don't know what happened 4 years ago, perhaps he got a better group of mares?, but Tapit has an incredible 2011 crop.

War Front's leading earner is Summer Front with $290,000. Tapit's is Tonalist with $1.1 million. Tapit has 3 Grade 1 SW's. War Front has none.

If you compare their stats, you'll see a huge difference....Tapit has 115 winners from 268 runners, while War Front has 57 winners from 127 runners. War Front has 44% winners, and Tapit has 42%. For SWs, Tapit has 23 SWs (8%), War Front has 10 SWs (7%). But they are close on percentages.

I'd also like to add, War Front's tend to run on grass more often. Tapit's top 5 earners are dirt horses (higher purses). While 4 of War Front's top earners are turf horses.

I'm in no way justifying War Front's fee, and fees are actually one of the most bizarre parts of breeding, but I think War Front will bounce back from this ... bad? ... year.

I loved Curlin as a racehorse, but take out Palace Malice and he doesn't even belong in the same conversation as War Front as a stallion. Ghostzapper has been the interesting development. When we joined the sire ranks he had the highest incoming stud fee since the early '80s at 200k, he tumbled in a huge way and has no stabilized where he should be at. He gets a really nice percentage of stakes winners and he is bred to moderate numbers of mares. If you look at total numbers of foals he has just a fraction of most of the other stallions in his bracket.

My prediction for 2015

Tapit - 200k
War Front - 150k

Stallion fees are pretty interesting to dissect. It really doesnt much matter at what they list War Front at, he will trade higher than that. What a fee is set at is no way set in stone. Halfway thru breeding season, they can be offering stallions at less or more than what they are listed at. They were selling Curlin at $15k at the start of the year, trying get his numbers up. He then started hitting on cylinders, and those deals ended. Now Id expect his fee to be raised for next year. Its all about timing, and not timing from year to year. Its week to week. If a horse, even a decent proven horse, is on a cold run, you can really negotiate, especially halfway thru the breeding season.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Pioneerof The Nile close to $50,000. He producing graded stakes winners on dirt, and colts to boot. That makes him a really valuable commodity.