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Grand National
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:25 pm
by Katewerk
I was about to post this in the Racing section, but it really deserves to be here - how much do pedigrees of these horses diverge from leading lines in flat racing?
How useful might they be as crosses to improve soundness and stamina, or is that an experiment that's been tried and abandoned?
Re: Grand National
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:35 pm
by swale1984
Well, looking at the past 4 winners, there seems to be the use of SOME prominent stallions (one had Northern Dancer twice), but largely, they are European horses and very little inbreeding.
I got very upset when the American Thoroughbred Review said that Americain was basically not "suitable" for American breeding. Here's a horse that won from 1 to 2 miles, from a fairly sturdy family, and a breeding consultant site is discouraging breeding to him because his progeny might take longer to develop. UGH!
Re: Grand National
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:02 pm
by carole
I don't really think pedigree matters that much in national hunt racing. It's a case of can the horse stay? Yes. Can the horse jump? Yes, ok we're good to go
Re: Grand National
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:13 pm
by luvthesales
Katewerk wrote:I was about to post this in the Racing section, but it really deserves to be here - how much do pedigrees of these horses diverge from leading lines in flat racing?
How useful might they be as crosses to improve soundness and stamina, or is that an experiment that's been tried and abandoned?
It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.
Re: Grand National
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:00 pm
by Katewerk
luvthesales wrote:It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.
Thanks, that was my other question!
Re: Grand National
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:23 am
by Della
Katewerk wrote:luvthesales wrote:It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.
Thanks, that was my other question!
When you say he's not a full TB, what is the "bit" that's not TB?
Re: Grand National
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:03 pm
by aethervox
Della wrote:Katewerk wrote:luvthesales wrote:It is important to note that not all are full TBs, including the winner.
Thanks, that was my other question!
When you say he's not a full TB, what is the "bit" that's not TB?
It's Selle Francais. His sixth dam, Judelle II, was half-thoroughbred, according to the Sport Horse Show and Breed Database.
Re: Grand National
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:00 am
by djnorth
That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!
Re: Grand National
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:05 pm
by aethervox
djnorth wrote:That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!
What's interesting is that Weatherby's in the UK has a 'non-thoroughbred register' and allows some of those horses into their thoroughbred stud. From their 'Conditions of Entry to General Stud Book':
Section B: In addition, a foal may be promoted from the Non-Thoroughbred Register and registered in the Appendix to the General Stud Book when the following conditions are all satisfied:
1. It can be satisfactorily proven that the foal results from a minimum of eight recorded crosses consecutively with "Thoroughbreds" (as designated above) including the cross of which it is the progeny.
2. The foal can show such performances in races open to Thoroughbreds, in both the Thoroughbred and Non-Thoroughbred sections of its pedigree, as to warrant its assimilation with Thoroughbreds.
3. The promotion is approved by the unanimous agreement of the International Stud Book Committee.
Re: Grand National
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:47 pm
by swale1984
djnorth wrote:That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!
LOL. However, it wouldn't be a bad idea to bring in more sturdy stock from Europe, especially the German horses.
Re: Grand National
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:37 pm
by Miss Woodford
djnorth wrote:That's really interesting. No way the Jockey Club would allow slower-developing sound (eyeroll!) stock to pollute flat racers!
Once a horse gets into the General Stud Book of the Jockey Club of Great Britain or France they are looked at the same as any other horse in the GSB, and they could certainly race in the US.
Actually both NH (UK) and NSA (USA) jumps racing allow NTR horses to compete. The 1995 Maryland Grand National winner Tarsky had a Selle Francais as his seventh dam, so he was two crosses shy of being GSB-eligible.