Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

Mylute wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:08 pm

Northport wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:01 pm I'd be more hopeful about him being a big hit in Japan if Shadai was buying him, not Arrow Stud. I am sure he will get quality mares, but the best mares and the stallions with the best chances are own by Shadai/Northern Farm/Oiwake Farm. I foresee the usual American non-Shadai career for Chrome. 2020 - 200+ mares, 2021 - 150+ mares, 2022 - 50 mares, 2023 - 20 mares, etc. unless he has a superstar in his first crop.

Regardless, I know he will be treated like a king there, and like someone else mentioned, it's unfair to bring him back once he is pensioned. If you look at the facilities they have in Japan vs. the ones at Old Friends, and then you had War Emblem needing to be gelded... it's unfair to move the horse. But that's a problem for a couple decades from now.

I have very little knowledge about the Japanese breeding landscape. While I know that Shadai is entirely dominant, will breeders automatically not be interested in a superstar and potential breeding goldmine like Chrome just because he is not at Shadai?

Ridan_Remembered wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?

Mylute wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:29 pm Top horses with successful siblings exist but nice horses like Chrome rarely ever have siblings that even begin to accomplish shat they did, so I fail to see how Faversham and Hope's Love's success or lack thereof affects him a lot.

While on topic, it's even weirder how breeders rejected SS because of his pedigree despite Halo being regarded nicely at the time.

Ridan_Remembered wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:38 pm Let me first say that I have great respect for the Japanese and their culture. I worked most of my career for Nissan and then Toyota at their national headquarters in the Los Angeles area before each company moved their HQ to other states. Let me also say that I fully understand the business aspects of the decision to sell a stallion, even one like Chrome, overseas. If Chrome had to go overseas, I'm glad it is to Japan.

What I don't understand is the deeply uncharitable, even snobbish attitude that some here have for Chrome's fans. Yes, many of them are not knowledgeable about this industry. Yes, many overreact to news such as this. But so what! They love the horse. Love him. Many have arranged vacations around being able to visit him. Many have followed his career all the way from the beginning up to the present, and have become fans of other horses because of their initial attraction to Chrome. Many bought into that "People's Horse" thing just to feel like they had a small piece of Chrome. They visited TM in droves. Some even had their weddings there.

Racing in the U.S. desperately needs people to engage with the sport/industry at all levels. It needs fans. It needs people to fall in love with the horses. It needs people to dream about maybe buying into a horse. It needs people to fill the stands to see their favorites run. This beautiful, shiny stallion with a boatload of personality is worth more to this industry than dry sales statistics. He has been a magnificent ambassador for the sport wherever he has gone. GOOD WILL MATTERS! His move overseas is a great loss to the industry in ways that have nothing to do with dollars. Yes, I know...I do know. Horses are expensive and usually need to earn their keep. I get it. But what does it hurt any of you to be a little more kind, a little more understanding for those who don't know, and who see this as a great wrong done to someone they love?

Miss Woodford wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:03 pm I hope he pulls a Take Charge Indy and his first few crops do so well he's brought back. Not because I'm a "Chromie". I want to keep our classic winners available to American breeders.

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:51 am All this being said, I think his sale can also be a commentary on where the sport stands in America. The foal share agreement for California and the West is a problem because pretty much all those circuits are on life support. The Taylors depend on the industry for their wealth. It seems to me they are getting pretty antsy about its longterm future and making as much money as they can until it goes belly up.

Curtis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:54 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:29 pm Top horses with successful siblings exist but nice horses like Chrome rarely ever have siblings that even begin to accomplish shat they did, so I fail to see how Faversham and Hope's Love's success or lack thereof affects him a lot.

While on topic, it's even weirder how breeders rejected SS because of his pedigree despite Halo being regarded nicely at the time.

Hope’s Love and Faversham provide a good argument that Chrome was a fluke—pedigree wise. Budroyale, Tizbud, etc. showed that while Tiznow was clearly the best of his siblings, the others were nice enough to gamble on him in KY.

One of the problems seen with Sunday Silence was his conformation. Chrome has some imperfections but he looks like friggin’ Buckpasser compared to Sunday Silence.

Delamont wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:23 pm

But I do see TM's need to make money. ...I feel caught in the middle.

Izvestia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:48 am Nobody reads articles these days. It’s not Taylor Made’s fault/decision/whatever... the horse was owned by a 50-share syndicate. They put it to a vote.

Cool racehorse, sounder than most, and he had lots of fans. But do those fans bet? Or buy racehorses? ie. contribute to the sport financially? Will their love of Chrome save the sport? I don’t think so.

He’ll be fine in Japan, and maybe sire some good ones.

swale1984 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:42 pm Steve Haskin shared his thoughts on this situation on facebook (I don't see them on Bloodhorse though). Basically, what he wrote was what he said on At the Races:
1) American breeders don't give stallions a chance to fail.
2) We've gotten away from racing ina sporting model and into racing as a business model--focused on quick return.

I agree with his points. We also see that the breeding industry only really cares about the sire and the dam. The rest of the family could be Eclipse winners, but if the sire and (sometimes) the dam aren't popular, then the offspring don't sell. That's the case with Chrome. Lucky Pulpit is closely related to Unbridled's Song (their dams were half sisters). Lucky Pulpit is also by Pulpit, the SAME sire as leading sire Tapit. Love the Chase's tail female line is pretty much Phipps/Claiborne mares (and anyone who has studied pedigrees knows that those are great lines, no matter how successful the mares were on the track). But, the breeders see "Lucky Pulpit" "Love the Chase" and see the "price" to breed Chrome, and dismissed him from the get-go.

Idk about you all, but I'm tired of the American thoroughbred model. I'm thinking I need to just focus on European, Australian and Japanese racing. At least their horses are bred for longevity and run for more than 6 races.

Ridan_Remembered wrote: ↑Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:29 pm In the updated article on Bloodhorse.com (I think, or maybe Paulick) about Chrome's sale, they mention that over 20,000 people have visited Chrome at TM. Most racetracks around the country would practically kill to attract numbers of fans like that. So while the syndicate absolutely, without question has every right to sell their property named California Chrome, I hope everyone involved also understands that this is a huge public relations disaster for the sport/industry in the United States. It comes as the sport in Chrome's home state is struggling to survive and is on shaky ground elsewhere.