Probably the "Lecomte Mare." PQ says she was never named and her owner drove her and other horses from Louisiana to Texas during the Civil War. If she was never named or branded, some unnamed mare would be easy to mix up.CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:16 pm Apparently there is a pedigree error somewhere between Judith and Lizzie G so the haplotype of this branch is different I2a from the main branch of the 23-b family which I assume would include Gallopade (M1a).
Pedigree Talk
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Slinky_Malinky
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Gemini
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I plunged into a rabbit hole last night while reading about pedigrees. Almahmoud only produced eight foals but her three daughters in turn resulted in the mega sire Northern Dancer (out of Natalma), the critical stamina and durability influence Halo (out of Cosmah), and a less renowned-- but still important-- stallion in his own right, Arctic Tern (out of Bubbling Beauty).
Then Almahmoud has numerous modern female influences via granddaughters Tosmah, Queen Sucree, Bonita Francita, Raise the Standard, and Coup de Folie.
Perhaps Almahmoud has been discussed before, but I'm impressed by her impact on TBs.
Then Almahmoud has numerous modern female influences via granddaughters Tosmah, Queen Sucree, Bonita Francita, Raise the Standard, and Coup de Folie.
Perhaps Almahmoud has been discussed before, but I'm impressed by her impact on TBs.
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CorridorZ75
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It is interesting that there are sire-producing mares versus really fertile tail female line mares, just like some sires are far better BM sires than sire of sires.
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Gemini
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I've heard of the Rasmussen Factor and the influence of mitochondrial DNA, but I wonder what else comes into play.CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:37 pm It is interesting that there are sire-producing mares versus really fertile tail female line mares, just like some sires are far better BM sires than sire of sires.
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CorridorZ75
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Speaking of strange pedigree "coincidences", I have always found it fascinating that the modern conduit for the Godolphin sireline , In Reality, was not only inbred to War Relic, but was a member of Family 21, a tail female family that began at the stud of the Earl of Godolphin and whose early, founding members were bred quite a bit to Godolphin Arabian and his sons. What makes it even more interesting to me, is that Hastings, who served a similar role just a few generations before is also inbred to the Godolphin sireline line via West Australian and is also a member of Family 21-a.
Looking in up, Tiznow did sire a millionaire along this same type of pedigree, Bear Now, inbred to In Reality and a member of the Family 21-a, but alas she is female, and her full brother only won once.
And yes, there is at least one member of Bal a Bali's first crop that would fit the bill- a colt out of Julie's Love, inbred to Relaunch with 21-a tail female family. Maybe don't geld that one Mr. Kelley, just in case.
Looking in up, Tiznow did sire a millionaire along this same type of pedigree, Bear Now, inbred to In Reality and a member of the Family 21-a, but alas she is female, and her full brother only won once.
And yes, there is at least one member of Bal a Bali's first crop that would fit the bill- a colt out of Julie's Love, inbred to Relaunch with 21-a tail female family. Maybe don't geld that one Mr. Kelley, just in case.
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Mylute
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Went to see what horses are currently with CARMA and a horse named Handsome Lover (He Be Fire N Ice) caught my eye for two reasons.
1. He's a gray 2016 model unraced due to the worst case of swayback I've ever seen.
2. His damsire is Ward Off Trouble (Wardlaw x Reasonable Miss, by Francis. S.), a name I've never seen before. Per PQ, he is the sire of 29 foals with a handful of stakes horses, including Handsome Lover's dam.
1. He's a gray 2016 model unraced due to the worst case of swayback I've ever seen.
2. His damsire is Ward Off Trouble (Wardlaw x Reasonable Miss, by Francis. S.), a name I've never seen before. Per PQ, he is the sire of 29 foals with a handful of stakes horses, including Handsome Lover's dam.
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Mylute
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By a Thousand Dollar Stallion out of a Five Hundred Dollar Mare and He is a Gun
https://www.breednet.com.au/news/12246/ ... e-is-a-gun
https://www.breednet.com.au/news/12246/ ... e-is-a-gun
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Mylute
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Once again, shout out to Catch the Moon, whose son Midnight Bourbon (Tiznow) just won the G3 Lecomte.
Racing Produce Record:
Cocked and Loaded (2013. by Colonel John) - 1st G3 Iroquios, Tremont S. GSP
Girvin (2014. by Tale of Ekati) - 1st G1 Haskell, G2 Louisiana Derby, G2 Risen Star S. MGSP
Pirate's Punch (2016. by Shanghai Bobby) - 1st G3 Salvatore Mile, MGSP
Midnight Bourbon (2018. by Tiznow) - 1st G3 Lecomte, MGSP
Four different stallions! Though she's only had colts so far...
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Equipoise
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Hope she has a filly eventually. A1, family of Ben Brush and the great Exterminator.Mylute wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:51 pmOnce again, shout out to Catch the Moon, whose son Midnight Bourbon (Tiznow) just won the G3 Lecomte.
Racing Produce Record:
Cocked and Loaded (2013. by Colonel John) - 1st G3 Iroquios, Tremont S. GSP
Girvin (2014. by Tale of Ekati) - 1st G1 Haskell, G2 Louisiana Derby, G2 Risen Star S. MGSP
Pirate's Punch (2016. by Shanghai Bobby) - 1st G3 Salvatore Mile, MGSP
Midnight Bourbon (2018. by Tiznow) - 1st G3 Lecomte, MGSP
Four different stallions! Though she's only had colts so far...
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KatieK101
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She also has a 2yo colt by Curlin, and a yearling colt by Quality RoadEquipoise wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:17 pmHope she has a filly eventually. A1, family of Ben Brush and the great Exterminator.Mylute wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:51 pmOnce again, shout out to Catch the Moon, whose son Midnight Bourbon (Tiznow) just won the G3 Lecomte.
Racing Produce Record:
Cocked and Loaded (2013. by Colonel John) - 1st G3 Iroquios, Tremont S. GSP
Girvin (2014. by Tale of Ekati) - 1st G1 Haskell, G2 Louisiana Derby, G2 Risen Star S. MGSP
Pirate's Punch (2016. by Shanghai Bobby) - 1st G3 Salvatore Mile, MGSP
Midnight Bourbon (2018. by Tiznow) - 1st G3 Lecomte, MGSP
Four different stallions! Though she's only had colts so far...
She's currently i/f/t Curlin, so hopefully it's a filly! She reminds me of Justwhistledixie, who had six colts before her seventh foal was a filly by Arrogate! Her next foal was a colt, though
She's visited mostly different stallions, too! Kudos to her breeders for sending her to several different stallions! I love to see it.
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Flanders
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https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/tony ... ers-breed/
Fantastic long reads, he isn't quite 1/4 way through the series and its been going for 3 1/2 years. So it doesn't get updated often but for those who love pedigrees, its some good reading.
Fantastic long reads, he isn't quite 1/4 way through the series and its been going for 3 1/2 years. So it doesn't get updated often but for those who love pedigrees, its some good reading.
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Mylute
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Eismeer (South Vigorous), the dam of Chrome's first Japanese foal, has Sham on her damside as well as Windy Sands, a son of Your Host who was a multiple champion sire in California.
You rarely see either of these two.
You rarely see either of these two.
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Flanders
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Good article on Gestüt Röttgen's breeding plans and some history about their program.
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/c ... c-rottgen/
I thought it belonged here because one of their best mares, Wellenspiel, whose first 2 foals won the G1 Deutsches Derby, is a female descendant of the immoral Kincsem. And while not related to this article in particular, Coolmore's stallion Camelot, is a female line descendant as well, which is something I didn't know. Its very cool that her line is still active and doing well.
Another thing I find fascinating is they have a mare by Bertrando, which isn't a name I expect to see when they are talking about a German thoroughbred farm. It looks like they sold her dam, but the it was a Rottgen family and then they bought the Bertrando filly and sent her back to Germany, while her dam continued to produce in California.
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/c ... c-rottgen/
I thought it belonged here because one of their best mares, Wellenspiel, whose first 2 foals won the G1 Deutsches Derby, is a female descendant of the immoral Kincsem. And while not related to this article in particular, Coolmore's stallion Camelot, is a female line descendant as well, which is something I didn't know. Its very cool that her line is still active and doing well.
Another thing I find fascinating is they have a mare by Bertrando, which isn't a name I expect to see when they are talking about a German thoroughbred farm. It looks like they sold her dam, but the it was a Rottgen family and then they bought the Bertrando filly and sent her back to Germany, while her dam continued to produce in California.
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Ridan_Remembered
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I posted this in the foals of 2021 thread, but think it also belongs here, so am copying it to this thread:
This is in regards to California Chrome's first foal born in Japan. The foal is out of a mare named Candy Barows. I looked up her pedigree and see that it is very interesting. Candy Barows' sixth dam, War Kilt, was a full sister to War Relic, the most successful of Man o' War's sons at stud. Man o' War's male line still survives today through War Relic's descendant, Tiznow.
This branch of War Kilt's family improved a lot when Affrettata, dam of Candy Barows, was bred to Sunday Silence grandsons. Affrettata produced two stakes winners by Admiral Moon, a maternal grandson of Sunday, and one stakes winner by Deep Impact (Candy Barows).
Candy Barows is line-bred to Halo through his champion sons, Sunday Silence and Devil's Bag. Also, Candy Barows brings a cross of Seattle Slew to her foal by Chrome, who is from Slew's male line.
This is in regards to California Chrome's first foal born in Japan. The foal is out of a mare named Candy Barows. I looked up her pedigree and see that it is very interesting. Candy Barows' sixth dam, War Kilt, was a full sister to War Relic, the most successful of Man o' War's sons at stud. Man o' War's male line still survives today through War Relic's descendant, Tiznow.
This branch of War Kilt's family improved a lot when Affrettata, dam of Candy Barows, was bred to Sunday Silence grandsons. Affrettata produced two stakes winners by Admiral Moon, a maternal grandson of Sunday, and one stakes winner by Deep Impact (Candy Barows).
Candy Barows is line-bred to Halo through his champion sons, Sunday Silence and Devil's Bag. Also, Candy Barows brings a cross of Seattle Slew to her foal by Chrome, who is from Slew's male line.
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Mylute
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La Perouse (Pelusa x Hat Shite Good, by Empire Maker) won the Hyacinth Stakes in Japan and is currently the lead for the Japan Road.
His sire, Pelusa (Zenno Rob Roy x Argentine Star, by Candy Stripes) is a G2W who only has 7 progeny listed on JBIS, all but one born in 2018. He has two other winners besides Pelusa. Graham Pavey or someone on the Japanese racing side of twitter referred to him as a "retired idol stallion."
He was the only horse in the field even nominated to the US Triple Crown.
His dam Hat Shite Good (pronounced shee-tay I believe) is from the family of Lady Be Good, Bold Example, and Negligee.
His third dam is Naughty Notions whose unnamed 2006 son of Medaglia d'Oro was one of the horses found neglected on the Borell property.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ucky-derby
His sire, Pelusa (Zenno Rob Roy x Argentine Star, by Candy Stripes) is a G2W who only has 7 progeny listed on JBIS, all but one born in 2018. He has two other winners besides Pelusa. Graham Pavey or someone on the Japanese racing side of twitter referred to him as a "retired idol stallion."
He was the only horse in the field even nominated to the US Triple Crown.
His dam Hat Shite Good (pronounced shee-tay I believe) is from the family of Lady Be Good, Bold Example, and Negligee.
His third dam is Naughty Notions whose unnamed 2006 son of Medaglia d'Oro was one of the horses found neglected on the Borell property.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... ucky-derby
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Equipoise
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Thank you for sharing this, Flanders. Fascinating info, particularly about the 18th and 19th century sires/dams.Flanders wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:43 am https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/tony ... ers-breed/
Fantastic long reads, he isn't quite 1/4 way through the series and its been going for 3 1/2 years. So it doesn't get updated often but for those who love pedigrees, its some good reading.
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Mylute
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A broodmare at Hill 'n Dale Canada, Malibu Sunrise (Malibu Moon), foaled a filly by SIlent Name.
Malibu Sunrise has an interesting pedigree. Her third dam is Kiss, a Venezuelan G1W who was brought to the United States.
Kiss is a daughter of SW Stevward (Nashua), who was a stallion in the US for some time before being sent to Venezuela. He sired some GSWs stateside.
Kiss's damsire if MSW Flit-To (Turn-To) and her dam's damsire is Backbone (Worden) who is of European ancestry.
Mahmoud is also on her damside.
Malibu Sunrise has an interesting pedigree. Her third dam is Kiss, a Venezuelan G1W who was brought to the United States.
Kiss is a daughter of SW Stevward (Nashua), who was a stallion in the US for some time before being sent to Venezuela. He sired some GSWs stateside.
Kiss's damsire if MSW Flit-To (Turn-To) and her dam's damsire is Backbone (Worden) who is of European ancestry.
Mahmoud is also on her damside.
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Mylute
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In the BH race results last week I saw German-bred Minuteman who had an unfamiliar pedigree.
He is sired by Quinzieme Monarque, a US-bred three-time winner who finished 4th in the Remsen and Pilgrim at 2, 4th in the...G1 German Derby and G3 Palm Beach Stakes at 3, and 3rd in a listed stakes in Germany at 4. He is a stallion in Germany with a few foals on the ground.
QM himself is a son of...Rock Hard Ten out of a Giant's Causeway mare. He has King's Bishop and Devil's Bag on his mother's side.
Minuteman has siblings born in Germany and the US. His dam Mrs. Williams (Monsun) has Turkoman as a grandpa and a bunch of German and French horses I've never heard of.
He is sired by Quinzieme Monarque, a US-bred three-time winner who finished 4th in the Remsen and Pilgrim at 2, 4th in the...G1 German Derby and G3 Palm Beach Stakes at 3, and 3rd in a listed stakes in Germany at 4. He is a stallion in Germany with a few foals on the ground.
QM himself is a son of...Rock Hard Ten out of a Giant's Causeway mare. He has King's Bishop and Devil's Bag on his mother's side.
Minuteman has siblings born in Germany and the US. His dam Mrs. Williams (Monsun) has Turkoman as a grandpa and a bunch of German and French horses I've never heard of.
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Flanders
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Interesting that he ran all his races in the US without medication until his last start when they gave him Lasix. I wonder why they did that and then sent him back to Europe to race, if they had intentions of standing him at stud. Having been given raceday medication makes him ineligible to clear the German stud books requirements for stallions, so his foals aren't eligible for any German bred bonuses. That is probably why he has so few foals.Mylute wrote: ↑Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:57 pm In the BH race results last week I saw German-bred Minuteman who had an unfamiliar pedigree.
He is sired by Quinzieme Monarque, a US-bred three-time winner who finished 4th in the Remsen and Pilgrim at 2, 4th in the...G1 German Derby and G3 Palm Beach Stakes at 3, and 3rd in a listed stakes in Germany at 4. He is a stallion in Germany with a few foals on the ground.
QM himself is a son of...Rock Hard Ten out of a Giant's Causeway mare. He has King's Bishop and Devil's Bag on his mother's side.
Minuteman has siblings born in Germany and the US. His dam Mrs. Williams (Monsun) has Turkoman as a grandpa and a bunch of German and French horses I've never heard of.