2016 Stallion Fees

[Twingo]

WinStar Farm

Artie Schiller* - $10,000 (from $15,000)

Bellamy Road* - $7,500 ($10,000)

Bodemeister - $30,000 ($30,000)

Carpe Diem – NEW $25,000

Colonel John* - $7,500 ($10,000)

Congrats - $20,000 ($35,000)

Daredevil – NEW $12,500

Distorted Humor - $100,000 ($100,000)

Drosselmeyer - $10,000 ($15,000)

Fed Biz - $12,500 ($12,500)

Gemologist - $15,000 ($15,000)

Hold Me Back - $5,000 ($5,000)

More Than Ready* - $50,000 ($50,000)

Overanalyze - $10,000 ($10,000)

Paynter - $20,000 ($25,000)

Pioneerof the Nile* - $125,000 ($60,000)

Revolutionary - $7,500 ($7,500)

Sidney's Candy - $10,000 ($15,000)

Speightstown* - $100,000 ($80,000)

Super Saver* - $55,000 ($35,000)

Take Charge Indy - $17,500 ($20,000)

Tiznow* - $60,000 ($75,000)

*fee subject to change based on Breeders’ Cup results.

[Horsebagger]

I was expecting 100ish for Pioneerof The Nile, but $125,000 minimum Considering he would be sitting 85th in the general rankings if it weren't for Pharoah, who is his only G1 winner.

I agree. It's stupid.

Then again who am I to say. It's commercialism.

Well, its pretty much the first domino and begins to frame what fees are to be announced for AP and Empire Maker, pending Breeders Cup results.

I think it locks in an announced fee of $150k minimum for the Triple Crown winner and makes Empire Maker the best value (and seriously puts a dent in the book for POTN, at least from a quality perspective) if he also comes to the US market at around $125,000, at least in my mind.

Anyone else have thoughts? I need a distraction post Monday Night Football results.

[Somnambulist]

think it locks in an announced fee of $150k minimum for the Triple Crown winner and makes Empire Maker the best value (and seriously puts a dent in the book for POTN, at least from a quality perspective) if he also comes to the US market at around $125,000, at least in my mind.

Anyone else have thoughts? I need a distraction post Monday Night Football results.

As a breeder how on earth do you want to go to AP for $150k when you've got Empire Maker coming back? If EM stood for $125k that's a way better value.

They're obviously gonna get $125k for PoTN, because if the other two books fill (what am I talking about.. they will fill) then they can get the excess. Quality likely suffers but you gotta make your money where you can get it. It's smart of them. EM coming back is probably going to take away some of the quality from AP too, no?

What I actually find the most intriguing here is the big bump Super Saver is getting.

[Horsebagger]

think it locks in an announced fee of $150k minimum for the Triple Crown winner and makes Empire Maker the best value (and seriously puts a dent in the book for POTN, at least from a quality perspective) if he also comes to the US market at around $125,000, at least in my mind.

Anyone else have thoughts? I need a distraction post Monday Night Football results.

As a breeder how on earth do you want to go to AP for $150k when you've got Empire Maker coming back? If EM stood for $125k that's a way better value.

They're obviously gonna get $125k for PoTN, because if the other two books fill (what am I talking about.. they will fill) then they can get the excess. Quality likely suffers but you gotta make your money where you can get it. It's smart of them. EM coming back is probably going to take away some of the quality from AP too, no?

What I actually find the most intriguing here is the big bump Super Saver is getting.

Its been discussed that EM coming back throws everything up in the air, and why I previously asked about who announces fees first, and whether that's an advantage or not. Makes sense that POTN comes out first, as EM and AP have their own standalone marketing tool that makes them more attractive than him.....The return of Grandpa, and the first TC winner in generations.

In the end, as in a lot of businesses, this has the makings of 'getting while the getting is good', and when the market cycles back down, 'look out below' for all of these stallions that didn't cement their attractiveness with on-track runners. I know that's a 'well...duh' comment, but not everyone remembers history when the prospect of making money is right in front of them.

[bare it all]

I'm too lazy to look, but what else does Pioneer have running?

[mariasmon]

I'm too lazy to look, but what else does Pioneer have running?

Take away Pharoah's earnings and he'd be at #85 on the general sires list, below the relocated Eskendereya and just ahead of Not For Love.

[bare it all]

Found some time here at lunch to peruse BH Stallion register. He's really... blah, honestly. He's 8th on the list.

His lifetime big horses other than Pharoah - Cairo Prince, Social Inclusion, Midnight Storm. His CPI is pretty cruddy after Pharoah.

His 2nd leading horse THIS year, Coutier (WHO???) with $159K and Midnight Storm.

Compare him to a stallion like Curlin (7th). This year Curlin has Keen Ice, Curalina and Stellar Wind. The CPI of his get is tons higher, as well.

[Treve]

I'm too lazy to look, but what else does Pioneer have running?

Championofthenile ?

[Somnambulist]

In the end, as in a lot of businesses, this has the makings of 'getting while the getting is good', and when the market cycles back down, 'look out below' for all of these stallions that didn't cement their attractiveness with on-track runners. I know that's a 'well...duh' comment, but not everyone remembers history when the prospect of making money is right in front of them.

Do you particularly need to if you've cashed when you could? I don't even recall where he was standing prior to AP. $50k? Even if they had to dip back to that they've certaintly benefitted long term, no?

I really do find this sort of thing fascinating. Why particularly, I'm not sure. I can't say I know very much with this side of the game, but do like learning about it. At the end of the day you're literally paying thousands of dollars for the sperm of one animal. Racing sure does make its fans feel poor (all sports do, really). It's interesting.

[bare it all]

I'm too lazy to look, but what else does Pioneer have running?

Championofthenile ?

He's currently 5th on his current year runners, after Catch My Drift and ahead of Doogie. CPI of 4.5

I've got nothing against the stallion, but man, does this feel like Forestry.

[Retrospectiv]

I'm too lazy to look, but what else does Pioneer have running?

Take away Pharoah's earnings and he'd be at #85 on the general sires list, below the relocated Eskendereya and just ahead of Not For Love.

That's pretty telling.....and shows the hype one horse can make on a fee....

Verrrry curious where Gainesway will price EM. He's been gone for some time.....and has failed in Japan. Given the blue blooded grass bred mares Juddmonte sacrificed to him as well, it should be well established which way to go with his mares by now.

I know, as always happens, he 'blew up' once he was sold to Japan. But, where was he on the leading sire list *when* he was sold? He had an incredible CI and opportunity from the start, and I remember his results being a little underwhelming considering that. I wonder if breeders will remember that, or only see him through rose coloured glasses...?

**Edit....answered my own question. Was leading the 3rd crop sire list when sold. 18 stakes winners from 4 crops of racing age, and as of Nov when he was sold had had 1 Grade 1 winner and 2 Grade 2 winners that year.

[Diver52]

There was an interesting analysis in the BH--if I remember correctly, it suggested that Juddmonte actually sent mares to EM which (as it turned out) were not suited to his strengths as a stallion, being often distance/turf types. Anyway, they did worse with his offspring than outside breeders. I think it also noted that he has crossed well with AP Indy mares, so presumably breeders will have a better sense of the mares to send to him.

[Izvestia]

There was an interesting analysis in the BH--if I remember correctly, it suggested that Juddmonte actually sent mares to EM which (as it turned out) were not suited to his strengths as a stallion, being often distance/turf types. Anyway, they did worse with his offspring than outside breeders. I think it also noted that he has crossed well with AP Indy mares, so presumably breeders will have a better sense of the mares to send to him.

Lots of good Indy mares out there! And, I cannot recall that article - but that makes sense re: Juddmonte's mares.

[Vandalay]

And another one to the shed..

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... ked-strong

I may be wrong, (and frequently am) but $10K for him seems like a helluva value

[carole]

And another one to the shed..

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... ked-strong

I may be wrong, (and frequently am) but $10K for him seems like a helluva value

I would disagree. He was a hit and miss horse...well mostly miss really. He won 1 Grade 1 in April (?) of his 3yo year and it was the Wood Memorial which in recent years has not really produced a good horse. I'm not sure about his pedigree but since his sire and dam were not even mentioned in the article I'm prone to think they were not all that great. It just says he comes from the Danzig sire line which is not particularly unique really. But I could be wrong and he might have a fantastic pedigree.

Any way, from my point of view, $10,000 is too much for him.

[Somnambulist]

Any way, from my point of view, $10,000 is too much for him.

Not to be witchy, but if you don't know anything about his pedigree how can you really have a point of view on him?

[BaroqueAgain1]

FWIW, Wicked Strong is by Hard Spun out of the Charismatic mare Moyne Abbey.
Hard Spun has been a successful sire, but I don't know that he's had enough sons head to the shed to indicate whether he's going to be a sire of sires.

[Northport]

What I actually find the most intriguing here is the big bump Super Saver is getting.

I actually think Super Saver has warranted a bump, though I'm not sure of $20,000.

I'm surprised at how exciting this topic is so early in the game... and Calumet hasn't even release their fees yet!

[Vandalay]

FWIW, Wicked Strong is by Hard Spun out of the Charismatic mare Moyne Abbey.
Hard Spun has been a successful sire, but I don't know that he's had enough sons head to the shed to indicate whether he's going to be a sire of sires.

Well, if here were going to Winstar, he'd be at least $15,000

[BlindLucky]

And another one to the shed..

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... ked-strong

I may be wrong, (and frequently am) but $10K for him seems like a helluva value

Spendthrift could repopulate a small country with the number of stallions they've got right now.