Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

MTO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:39 pm Her 2 fillies(currently 4yo and yearling) are worth quite a bit even if they never race or never win a race, just because of the bloodline. The offspring of those 2 fillies will be worth more because Zenyatta is their granddam.

Well, yeah. That’s kind of my point. Why keep pouring buckets of money into stud and vet and agistment fees for an aging problem breeder with mediocre progeny results when she has two young, healthy, well-bred daughters who could take her place in a broodmare band?

That’s one of the reasons Rachel’s Valentina was retired when she was. Her dam was no longer breeding. If RA had not been pensioned when she was, Stonestreet might have rested RV and raced her as a 4yo.

Slinky_Malinky wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:44 pm

MTO wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:39 pm Her 2 fillies(currently 4yo and yearling) are worth quite a bit even if they never race or never win a race, just because of the bloodline. The offspring of those 2 fillies will be worth more because Zenyatta is their granddam.

Well, yeah. That’s kind of my point. Why keep pouring buckets of money into stud and vet and agistment fees for an aging problem breeder with mediocre progeny results when she has two young, healthy, well-bred daughters who could take her place in a broodmare band?

Because a million dollars in stud fees is about .5% of Jerry Moss's net worth. Why do anything that costs money in horse racing? because people enjoy owning and breeding nice racehorses.

.... the amount of money spent on Zenyatta foals is approaching $1,000,000... and she still doesn’t even have a maiden winner.

Here 2 fillies are worth quite a bit even if they never race or never win a race, just because of the bloodline. The offspring of those 2 fillies will be worth more because Zenyatta is their granddam.

I think that's an optimistic assesment of those 2 fillies.

While Vertigineux was a good broodmare, none of her daughters have been thus far.
Balance hasn't produced anything, and was just sold for $135,000 at Keeneland Nov.
Where's Baily has a worse produce record than Zenyatta for foal losses and apparent reproductive issues.
Treasure Trail has produced one Grades stakes placed horse
Eblouissante is young, but only has a maiden and a non runner of racing age.
Pressurizing has 3 of racing age, with one maiden win among them.
Harley Rose has 2 of racing age, both unraced....
And then you have Zenyatta

Eventually people will stop throwing money at stud fees on these mares.

Northport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:44 pm
Well, yeah. That’s kind of my point. Why keep pouring buckets of money into stud and vet and agistment fees for an aging problem breeder with mediocre progeny results when she has two young, healthy, well-bred daughters who could take her place in a broodmare band?

Because a million dollars in stud fees is about .5% of Jerry Moss's net worth. Why do anything that costs money in horse racing? because people enjoy owning and breeding nice racehorses.
[/quote]

Well, again, yeah, that's my point. The Mosses want to breed successful racehorses to watch them run and win. All the money in the world is not going to help this aging problem breeder with a poor production record achieve their goals of breeding successful racehorses who run and win. They've tried. It didn't work. So why keep doing something that they know doesn't work, when there are two young, healthy daughters of this mare?

Slinky_Malinky wrote: ↑Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:48 pm

Northport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:44 pm
Well, yeah. That’s kind of my point. Why keep pouring buckets of money into stud and vet and agistment fees for an aging problem breeder with mediocre progeny results when she has two young, healthy, well-bred daughters who could take her place in a broodmare band?

Because a million dollars in stud fees is about .5% of Jerry Moss's net worth. Why do anything that costs money in horse racing? because people enjoy owning and breeding nice racehorses.

Well, again, yeah, that's my point. The Mosses want to breed successful racehorses to watch them run and win. All the money in the world is not going to help this aging problem breeder with a poor production record achieve their goals of breeding successful racehorses who run and win. They've tried. It didn't work. So why keep doing something that they know doesn't work, when there are two young, healthy daughters of this mare?
[/quote]

Breeding success is a lightning strike of luck more often than anything else. Too often in racing we focus on the top 1% of mares that produce the G1 winners and multiple stakes winners.
Just because Zen hasn't produced anything of note yet, doesn't mean she won't. Maybe she needs a different stallion, maybe she just needs a bit of luck. It seems both her colts might have had some attitude problems (I might be recalling that wrong). And her sire and female line seem to be quite a female success dominated lot - maybe we'll see something different with the fillies? Zellda either has had a few niggling issues or is like her dam and a late maturer.
And whilst Zellda might be ready to join a broodmare band soon, I hope (fingers crossed) the Candy Ride filly can't for a few years. For me, the Candy Ride cross is the most exciting she's had. And while they wait for those girls, they might as well spend some petty cash and get Zen covered.
If the vet says her physiology is all still there and she's fit to be covered, there's no reason not to. I trust LE (and the Mosses) to listen to professionals about when to call it quits in her breeding career.
Besides, she's only had three (?) dodgy foalings? And the loss of the War Front foals was really bad luck. There are plenty of mares in the industry that have gone through a lot more. I've known mares with 4-5 consecutive cases of late term abortions/placentitis/dystocia, come good with foals in later stages of life, and IMO they haven't been the quality of mares it's worth it with. At least Zen has the record to make it worth a punt.

Apparently, Zellda is back at SA and hit the track yesterday!

https://twitter.com/ZenyattaMafia/statu ... 25184?s=20

swale1984 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:44 pm Apparently, Zellda is back at SA and hit the track yesterday!

https://twitter.com/ZenyattaMafia/statu ... 25184?s=20

Interesting that she's in a bridle without a noseband. Is there a particular reason for that style? (I tend to notice because my avatar Native Diver ran in one.)

I see a lot of Australian horses racing in that sort of basic bridle. Nice to see horses able to run with "naked noses," and without a bunch of straps around their muzzles.

I would guess she has a soft mouth and doesn't cross her jaw or try to evade the bit when they try to put her in a frame. With babies maybe Sherriffs want to start with less and work from there, whether they need a stronger bit, figure 8 noseband, tongue tie, etc.

Northport wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:52 pm I would guess she has a soft mouth and doesn't cross her jaw or try to evade the bit when they try to put her in a frame. With babies maybe Sherriffs want to start with less and work from there, whether they need a stronger bit, figure 8 noseband, tongue tie, etc.

Thanks for the info (but Zellda's hardly a baby, )

Looks like the Candy Ride filly is named Zilkha.
Quite sweet, I like it better than Zellda. And she looks like a bonny gal.

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:23 pm Where's Baily has a worse produce record than Zenyatta for foal losses and apparent reproductive issues.

Where's Bailey produced a multiple G2 winner. The ability is there, but perhaps not the luck.

Diver52 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:16 pm
Interesting that she's in a bridle without a noseband. Is there a particular reason for that style? (I tend to notice because my avatar Native Diver ran in one.)

Most of our horses (Europe) trained in a bridle without a noseband and a lot raced without one too. Tongue ties were never used either.

Any news on whether she was bred this year or if they are giving her a year off again?

Squeaky wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:39 pm Any news on whether she was bred this year or if they are giving her a year off again?

I can ask next week when I visit LE.. unless someone already knows

flytpthestars wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:25 pm

Squeaky wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:39 pm Any news on whether she was bred this year or if they are giving her a year off again?

I can ask next week when I visit LE.. unless someone already knows

Thanks - that would be great!

yes... i would like to hear an update about Zenny too - looking forward to it - thank you!!

Am at LE tour, she said she wasnt bred yet as she knows of.

Got to see her in her paddock but she didnt come up to the fence. Muddy as always

Does anyone now how Zellda is doing? She hasn't worked in a long time.

flytpthestars wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:08 am Am at LE tour, she said she wasnt bred yet as she knows of.

Got to see her in her paddock but she didnt come up to the fence. Muddy as always

So, skipping this year?