Is American Pharoah a turf sire

barbaro111 · Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:38 pm

Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:25 pm
barbaro111 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:29 am I was looking for the thread "American Pharoah's Children", but could not find it.

I think there enough Pharoah babies out there to determine the success or failure to this wonderful horse

I have to preface my comments with this: I love American Pharoah----- However, I do have to ask this question- is he a
dud at stud? He is 78th in earnings on the sire list----- with 16+ million. I think his first foals looked great but since then
he has not had any really big winners either on turf or dirt. Four Wheel Drive did win a BC sprint but then who knows what happened
to him. It just seems like the really great ones are not real successful stallions (save for Seattle Slew). Thoughts?
The thread you are looking for is under Horse Followings: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6704

What sire list are you looking at? He is 13th for the year overall. https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... listType=g

I agree that 100k is probably a little high for him but if mares continue to get bred to him, it wont go down. He is doing fine at stud though, his oldest runners are 4. His better runners have been on the turf but he has gotten more dirt SWs this year.
He is 23rd on the dirt sire list with 6 SWs/3 GSWs this year and 4th on the turf sire list with 5 SWs/1 GSW this year.

He also has:
G1SW Harvery's Lil Goil, who finished 3rd in the BC F/M Turf
Cartier Champion 2yo/G1SW Van Gogh
G1SW Cafe Pharoah
MG2 As Time Goes By
G2 Merneith, etc
Also had Nicest finish 3rd in the Irish Oaks(G1) this year

Thank you for all that great information. I try to watch races in which his babies are running: I love him so much and want him to do well!!!!

barbaro111 · Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:42 pm

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/tdn-sire-stats/

Here is sire stats I just found-

Flanders · Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:10 pm

barbaro111 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:42 pm https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/tdn-sire-stats/

Here is sire stats I just found-

No what I was questioning was you said he was 78th in your original post. This shows him as 17th.

barbaro111 · Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:55 am

Flanders wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:10 pm
barbaro111 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:42 pm https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/tdn-sire-stats/

Here is sire stats I just found-
No what I was questioning was you said he was 78th in your original post. This shows him as 17th.

I am trying to find the document on line that showed he was 78th- can't find it but i will keep on looking.

Retrospectiv · Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 pm

Mylute wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:06 pm It seems like Coolmore has more heavily supported Justify than they did AP.

I was going to bring that up.
I think he was certainly hurt by Justify joining the Coolmore roster so soon after he did. They appear to be putting much more stake in their son of Scat Daddy now vs Pharoah. I imagine AP would have continued to receive more of their best mares had Justify not come along so quickly.

I see AP likely being a more Affirmed type as a sire. Useful sire on both surfaces, but maybe not extraordinary.

CorridorZ75 · Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:31 pm

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 pm
Mylute wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:06 pm It seems like Coolmore has more heavily supported Justify than they did AP.
I was going to bring that up.
I think he was certainly hurt by Justify joining the Coolmore roster so soon after he did. They appear to be putting much more stake in their son of Scat Daddy now vs Pharoah. I imagine AP would have continued to receive more of their best mares had Justify not come along so quickly.

I see AP likely being a more Affirmed type as a sire. Useful sire on both surfaces, but maybe not extraordinary.

They got AP for a bargain. They were out financially on him very early on. Justify, if the rumors were right, was most definitely not a bargain. Though their financial plan usually has them in the black long before the reality of a stallion's potency is found out, even if every mare paid the full stud fee and had a foal that stood or nursed, they wouldn't see close to a profit before the third year.

Flanders · Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:58 pm

CorridorZ75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:31 pm
Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 pm
Mylute wrote: ↑Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:06 pm It seems like Coolmore has more heavily supported Justify than they did AP.
I was going to bring that up.
I think he was certainly hurt by Justify joining the Coolmore roster so soon after he did. They appear to be putting much more stake in their son of Scat Daddy now vs Pharoah. I imagine AP would have continued to receive more of their best mares had Justify not come along so quickly.

I see AP likely being a more Affirmed type as a sire. Useful sire on both surfaces, but maybe not extraordinary.
They got AP for a bargain. They were out financially on him very early on. Justify, if the rumors were right, was most definitely not a bargain. Though their financial plan usually has them in the black long before the reality of a stallion's potency is found out, even if every mare paid the full stud fee and had a foal that stood or nursed, they wouldn't see close to a profit before the third year.

Exactly. If the $75 million price is right, they had no choice but to send really nice mares to him. I'd also like to think it was cause they have stood almost his entire sire line back through Storm Bird, except Storm Cat, but idk if they are sentimental. I know they badly want/hope for a Scat Daddy replacement from one of his many sons that they stand.
I actually think they support AP more now because he has done pretty well with Galileo/Sadler's Wells mares.