Jockey & Trainer News 2023

[Starine]

omg I was sad to see he died but to see that he took his own life is terrible.

Yeah. Between that and the passing of Alva Starr it has not been a good day for racing.

[Northport]

omg I was sad to see he died but to see that he took his own life is terrible.

Yeah. Between that and the passing of Alva Starr it has not been a good day for racing.

When I saw he was 81, I assumed natural causes, but hearing Steve Byk break up over it on his show today was the only clue I needed. Truly heartbreaking. He was very talented, and it’s still a shame that Adena Springs pulled their horses from him after what he was able to accomplish with Awesome Again and Touch Gold.

[Flanders]

omg I was sad to see he died but to see that he took his own life is terrible.

Yeah. Between that and the passing of Alva Starr it has not been a good day for racing.

When I saw he was 81, I assumed natural causes, but hearing Steve Byk break up over it on his show today was the only clue I needed. Truly heartbreaking. He was very talented, and it’s still a shame that Adena Springs pulled their horses from him after what he was able to accomplish with Awesome Again and Touch Gold.

Yeah and its not like they really stayed with the trainer they moved to either. They had them on to someone else shortly there after and then they broke ties with him as well.

[Tessablue]

Yeah and its not like they really stayed with the trainer they moved to either. They had them on to someone else shortly there after and then they broke ties with him as well.

Well, given what we now know about their founder...

Sad news all around.

[Flanders]

It is disappointing that Bob and his owners are so secretive about the physical maladies and injuries of many of his initially promising horses. If I hear “minor issue” one more time… It’s like they just disappear for months or a year or more with no updates. And I know they don’t have to tell us and don’t owe us this information, but in the current climate it would be very helpful for racing’s social license and fan support to be a bit more open about this type of thing, IMHO. And yes I know the old Charlie Whittingham quote about feeding and keeping owners in the dark like mushrooms. It just doesn’t work anymore, for owners or fans.

Its not just them though. Its almost every trainer and connection. I could ask about so many horses trained by various trainers but I already searched myself when I was looking for them. There is nothing out there about any of them. Maybe I should start posting anyway in the Whatever Happened To thread and see if someone knows something that I couldn't find. The connections that do share are the exceedingly rare ones.

[Tessablue]

I really don’t think it’s the same. Trainers are rarely a forthcoming bunch, but many of them will at least announce when a horse is done for the year (off the top of my head, Kingsbarns, Disarm, and Angel of Empire from last year). It’s a very specific pipeline of working inconsistently —> not working at all —> disappearing from the racetrack —> refusing to elaborate when asked directly —> sometimes never seen on the racetrack again that I think Squeaky is referring to. Can you imagine Bill Mott telling the press that his high-profile horse who was taken out of training for unstated reasons is “just chilling?”

Seems to have started happening in the past few years, and I’m not saying it’s anything nefarious. In all likelihood it has something to do with high-maintenance owners who want to preserve stud value. But it does make it more difficult to get excited about these flashy horses when you can’t really follow along with what they’re doing or when they’ll be racing.

[Diver52]

I think the tendency to secrecy especially on the part of some high-profile barns is related to the Zenyatta factor--you tell the fans something, and the internet blows up with theories and accusations. Certainly the same thing applies to BB. For every fan who says "Oh, okay, that's too bad but I sure hope he can come back just as good" there will be a hundred posting syringe symbols. Plus, it's just nobody's business but the owners'. It's one thing to withhold information about a horse running (because it affects bettors) but there's just no obligation to feed fans' curiosity.

[Squeaky]

I think the tendency to secrecy especially on the part of some high-profile barns is related to the Zenyatta factor--you tell the fans something, and the internet blows up with theories and accusations. Certainly the same thing applies to BB. For every fan who says "Oh, okay, that's too bad but I sure hope he can come back just as good" there will be a hundred posting syringe symbols. Plus, it's just nobody's business but the owners'. It's one thing to withhold information about a horse running (because it affects bettors) but there's just no obligation to feed fans' curiosity.

I knew your feelings on this based on you posting something similar awhile ago when this subject came up again, which is why I addressed it in my post proactively. We can agree to disagree on this one- you are an owner and I just a fan so we have different opinions- I believe to grow the sport for fans there needs to be more transparency on every level. If a star NBA player gets injured or can’t play the fans are told the reason. In Hong Kong, Japan etc I think there is much more communication with fans and sharing of information.

[stark]

I think the tendency to secrecy especially on the part of some high-profile barns is related to the Zenyatta factor--you tell the fans something, and the internet blows up with theories and accusations. Certainly the same thing applies to BB. For every fan who says "Oh, okay, that's too bad but I sure hope he can come back just as good" there will be a hundred posting syringe symbols. Plus, it's just nobody's business but the owners'. It's one thing to withhold information about a horse running (because it affects bettors) but there's just no obligation to feed fans' curiosity.

I'm always curious as to what do fans do with any information once they get it?

[Curtis]

Years ago, a friend of mine had a horse in at either Santa Anita or Del Mar, so I was in the walking ring before the race. Doug O’Neill had one in for this rather ebullient couple. Bobby Frankel either had one in or one schooling, so he was there too. Doug’s owners asked O’Neill if he thought they could ask Frankel about a specific favorite of theirs that Bobby trained. O’Neill shrugged and basically told them they could always ask but be ready to duck. So the question was asked and Frankel gave a blank look before loudly answering, “What the f*%k do you want to know that for…….are YOU one of the f*%king owners?!!” Doug again shrugged and said out loud, “They can’t say I didn’t warn them.” They didn’t find out. Now I’m not saying Frankel was right, but it gives you the idea of what dealing with the various personalities at the racetrack can be like. I remember Dick Mandella, a very funny, self-deprecating man, blow up at Brittney Eurton on air for asking why Beholder had been having trouble beating Stellar Wind.

[Squeaky]

So the trainers must think there are some repercussions from owners for revealing this information-hence the lashing out. All I know is Rick Porter was very transparent with fans starting with Rockport Harbor who was a big part of this forum back in the day, and it really helped him cultivate a fan base for him and his horses. The attitudes you speak of are very old school and just don’t work in today’s changing racing world.

[Tessablue]

There's simply no way that this behavior is influenced by internet commentators. Nothing invites suspicion more than secrecy, and people would have very little to speculate on if they were given a "he has a chip and will be out for four months." Instead, it's "we're waiting for the SA Derby --> he has a minor issue and will be walking for 30 days --> he's just chilling --> [radio silence]." You couldn't devise a scenario more ripe for speculation if you tried.

Connections don't owe people anything, and these certainly aren't the only connections to carry out this practice (Sadler is another who is terrible about it). But as Squeaky says, this behavior simply isn't congruent with the modern sport. How are people supposed to follow or root for these horses when they have no idea where they are or when they will show up again? Say what you will about MyRaceHorse--and I've said plenty--but at least they send an update every time a horse so much as blinks.

[Curtis]

So the trainers must think there are some repercussions from owners for revealing this information-hence the lashing out. All I know is Rick Porter was very transparent with fans starting with Rockport Harbor who was a big part of this forum back in the day, and it really helped him cultivate a fan base for him and his horses. The attitudes you speak of are very old school and just don’t work in today’s changing racing world.

If you say so but back when “Old School” was simply referred to as “School”, there were a lot more fans and followers and it wasn’t the lack of transparency that brought us to today. Sending horses away for farm time is old school too, but I digress. I think there has been a general erosion due to the way guys like Lukas and Baffert conduct business and the Breeder’s Cup. That’s why I don’t think any conclusion can be drawn as to the Evil Empire imposing bans. It’s a gradual thing. Let’s talk in ten years if there is anything to talk about. We’re 50 years into DWL’s foray into TB racing and 46 since he got serious and jettisoned his QH’s. The sport was at its zenith then. There were multiple races a day with 12 horse fields with 4 AE’s having been scratched. Some of those races were splits. If you had told me then that by 2024 multiple tracks would be closed leaving areas in disarray, I would have questioned your sanity. The sport has been quarter horsed and TB’s aren’t built for that.

[Squeaky]

The race to breed syndrome to “ make a stallion” has not helped either.

[Curtis]

The race to breed syndrome to “ make a stallion” has not helped either.

I think the “Quarter Horsization” has contributed to that. I’d argue that horses are bred to breed. Racing is just seen as an annoyance. Seems silly but it looks that way to me. As I post this I’m looking at two of my little paintings. One is of Strong Award a one-eyed gelding Bobby Frankel kept going until the age of 12. He got claimed away from Bobby and Frankel missed him something awful. So in what would be his last race, all of Frankel’s owners got together, chipped in and claimed Strong Award and gifted him to Frankel. Bobby kept him around the barn until the next January 1. Bobby then threw him a Bar Mitzvah and gave him to his breeder who had a farm up here in WA for the ultimate farm time. The other is of Most Bagdad who was a decent sized yearling purchase for a CA Bred yearling in 1970 as he was a half-brother to Most Host who once upon a time upset Damascus in the 1968 Strub. Most Bagdad didn’t work out but Jerry Fanning kept him going to age 10 before he changed hands and made his last few starts in the Midwest. Rumor has it Most Bagdad wasn’t too picky about hands as he was a biter and seemed to like them all. Them’s were the days and even though these were both geldings, even the lack of equipment doesn’t necessarily keep them around near as much anymore.

[Diver52]

I don't think it's true that other sports are more forthcoming other than as to whether a player is likely for an upcoming game--I suspect teams are encouraged to be honest for betting purposes. But I can't count the number of players on my local team who are reported as "day to day" with an "elbow strain" or "hip discomfort" and the next thing you know they're having Tommy John surgery or are put on the 60 day DL.

[Curtis]

I don't think it's true that other sports are more forthcoming other than as to whether a player is likely for an upcoming game--I suspect teams are encouraged to be honest for betting purposes. But I can't count the number of players on my local team who are reported as "day to day" with an "elbow strain" or "hip discomfort" and the next thing you know they're having Tommy John surgery or are put on the 60 day DL.

As Vin Scully once said about a player, “He’s day to day…….aren’t we all?”

[stark]

Chris McCarron (who has been retired longer than some posters here have been alive) doing a radio interview in SoCal this morning.

Asked who the best horse he ever rode was, his answer was it's a "grand slam"

John Henry
Sunday Silence
Tiznow
Alysheba

Not a bad answer at all.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Resul ... J&eID=2918

[Izvestia]

Chris McCarron (who has been retired longer than some posters here have been alive) doing a radio interview in SoCal this morning.

Asked who the best horse he ever rode was, his answer was it's a "grand slam"

John Henry
Sunday Silence
Tiznow
Alysheba

Not a bad answer at all.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Resul ... J&eID=2918

That’s a pretty amazing list! Is that in order?

[stark]

Chris McCarron (who has been retired longer than some posters here have been alive) doing a radio interview in SoCal this morning.

Asked who the best horse he ever rode was, his answer was it's a "grand slam"

John Henry
Sunday Silence
Tiznow
Alysheba

Not a bad answer at all.

https://www.equibase.com/profiles/Resul ... J&eID=2918

That’s a pretty amazing list! Is that in order?

NOT in order to my knowledge, I think that was his point of calling it a grand slam, a 4 way tie if you will.