Breeders Cup 2021 @ Del Mar

[BaroqueAgain1]

I've heard some discussion about Del Mar's turf course being a bit tight, even for some US horses. I wonder if being able to run tighter turns (sharper than what most Euro/Japanese horses see) weighs heavily when foreign barns are choosing horses to send?

[tachyon]

I've heard some discussion about Del Mar's turf course being a bit tight, even for some US horses. I wonder if being able to run tighter turns (sharper than what most Euro/Japanese horses see) weighs heavily when foreign barns are choosing horses to send?

Yes, it's known that Del Mar's turf course has much tighter turns and shorter home stretch than JRA's turf courses.
But I don't imagine that Japanese connections took it into account when choosing horses to send this year.
Both Loves Only You (F&M Turf) and Vin de Garde (Mile) are closers/stretch runners.
So it makes it difficult to predict what they will do.
I think that Loves Only You has the class to win the F&M Turf, but her jockey should guide her more forwardly than he usually does.

[CorridorZ75]

My friend and I talked about this once…possibly it had to do with Del Mar being by the ocean, with the salt affecting the track? It’s deeper than SA …maybe more like Belmont?

Thanks!

more like humidity and wind changes than salt, especially with onshore /offshore wind changes.
In 2017 every winner was coming off the pace on dirt, and then the Classic, run significantly later than the previous dirt race and into the twilight was a merry go round, despite GR running the slowest final winning 1/4 mile.

That’s interesting, and makes sense...I guess there’s just no predicting how the track is going to play, even on race day, nor who will like it.

I’m getting tired of the BC always being in CA. Fall in NY is wonderful; granted in early November you can get a bad day or two, but I don’t understand why they won’t run it at Belmont again

I think NYRA has not requested it in some time. I hate to say it, but at this point Santa Anita, Churchill, Belmont are probably the only truly ideal tracks for it. Keeneland and Del Mar make do, but they are both a bit too small, and as nice as Keeneland is, it is rather miserable when it is that crowded. I have never been to Del Mar when it is that crowded, but I imagine it is the same. Aqueduct just doesn't have the VIP vibe BC is looking for. Arlington was a jewel, but one US racing just threw back into the volcano. Gulfstream no longer has the capacity. Saratoga might end up a good choice with the current state of climate change, but as a destination it is not all that easy to get in and out of for people or international horses. I have most enjoyed myself at Santa Anita on big days. Even with huge crowds, it is just so easy to move around the facility. I have attended two BC days there in two very different settings- first on just a SRO ticket without a seat and the second on the swanky end of things and thoroughly enjoyed both. I have attended CD on Derby days twice, and though I had fun, found moving around the facility stifling and exhausting. I attended Keeneland's first BC, but after experiencing the crush of a few Blue Grass days there, I decided to just buy access to The Hill, which was a nice picnic and worked out well, but again, it wasn't like watching the races live in front of you. I would imagine Belmont would be more like Santa Anita maybe, but with all the construction going on, doubt they will ask anytime soon.

[Flanders]

more like humidity and wind changes than salt, especially with onshore /offshore wind changes.
In 2017 every winner was coming off the pace on dirt, and then the Classic, run significantly later than the previous dirt race and into the twilight was a merry go round, despite GR running the slowest final winning 1/4 mile.

That’s interesting, and makes sense...I guess there’s just no predicting how the track is going to play, even on race day, nor who will like it.

I’m getting tired of the BC always being in CA. Fall in NY is wonderful; granted in early November you can get a bad day or two, but I don’t understand why they won’t run it at Belmont again

I think NYRA has not requested it in some time. I hate to say it, but at this point Santa Anita, Churchill, Belmont are probably the only truly ideal tracks for it. Keeneland and Del Mar make do, but they are both a bit too small, and as nice as Keeneland is, it is rather miserable when it is that crowded. I have never been to Del Mar when it is that crowded, but I imagine it is the same. Aqueduct just doesn't have the VIP vibe BC is looking for. Arlington was a jewel, but one US racing just threw back into the volcano. Gulfstream no longer has the capacity. Saratoga might end up a good choice with the current state of climate change, but as a destination it is not all that easy to get in and out of for people or international horses. I have most enjoyed myself at Santa Anita on big days. Even with huge crowds, it is just so easy to move around the facility. I have attended two BC days there in two very different settings- first on just a SRO ticket without a seat and the second on the swanky end of things and thoroughly enjoyed both. I have attended CD on Derby days twice, and though I had fun, found moving around the facility stifling and exhausting. I attended Keeneland's first BC, but after experiencing the crush of a few Blue Grass days there, I decided to just buy access to The Hill, which was a nice picnic and worked out well, but again, it wasn't like watching the races live in front of you. I would imagine Belmont would be more like Santa Anita maybe, but with all the construction going on, doubt they will ask anytime soon.

The NYRA hasn't tried to get the Breeders Cup since the last time they hosted in 2005. They told the Breeders Cup to not even consider them a hosting option. The Breeders Cup told them they wouldn't be picked anyway because the Belmont track facilities need major renovations. Essentially for Belmont to be considered a host track, they have to heat the grandstand and add lighting to the parking lots, plus other infrastructure improvements. If the NYRA makes the Belmont grandstand heated, that is the end of Aqueduct cause they don't need two facilities that can race year round. Saratoga would never be an option.

[Tessablue]

Man, I was colder at CD than I was at Belmont for the BC. Fall in the northeast isn't what it used to be, either.

The Kentucky/ California rotation is so deeply boring, but consolidation is happening everywhere across the sport, so I guess it's to be expected. Hard to believe the BC ever used to be run at places like Woodbine, Lone Star, and Monmouth.

[Slewfan2]

more like humidity and wind changes than salt, especially with onshore /offshore wind changes.
In 2017 every winner was coming off the pace on dirt, and then the Classic, run significantly later than the previous dirt race and into the twilight was a merry go round, despite GR running the slowest final winning 1/4 mile.

That’s interesting, and makes sense...I guess there’s just no predicting how the track is going to play, even on race day, nor who will like it.

I’m getting tired of the BC always being in CA. Fall in NY is wonderful; granted in early November you can get a bad day or two, but I don’t understand why they won’t run it at Belmont again

I think NYRA has not requested it in some time. I hate to say it, but at this point Santa Anita, Churchill, Belmont are probably the only truly ideal tracks for it. Keeneland and Del Mar make do, but they are both a bit too small, and as nice as Keeneland is, it is rather miserable when it is that crowded. I have never been to Del Mar when it is that crowded, but I imagine it is the same. Aqueduct just doesn't have the VIP vibe BC is looking for. Arlington was a jewel, but one US racing just threw back into the volcano. Gulfstream no longer has the capacity. Saratoga might end up a good choice with the current state of climate change, but as a destination it is not all that easy to get in and out of for people or international horses. I have most enjoyed myself at Santa Anita on big days. Even with huge crowds, it is just so easy to move around the facility. I have attended two BC days there in two very different settings- first on just a SRO ticket without a seat and the second on the swanky end of things and thoroughly enjoyed both. I have attended CD on Derby days twice, and though I had fun, found moving around the facility stifling and exhausting. I attended Keeneland's first BC, but after experiencing the crush of a few Blue Grass days there, I decided to just buy access to The Hill, which was a nice picnic and worked out well, but again, it wasn't like watching the races live in front of you. I would imagine Belmont would be more like Santa Anita maybe, but with all the construction going on, doubt they will ask anytime soon.

I agree with all this. I would love to spend a day at Santa Anita...I don’t mind the BC being held there, it’s just ...fatigue at this point.

Belmont is gorgeous, it’s grand, it’s really perfect...but not to say NYRA is superstitious, but I wonder if the tragedies that happened at the 2 BC held there spooked them..

[Slewfan2]

That’s interesting, and makes sense...I guess there’s just no predicting how the track is going to play, even on race day, nor who will like it.

I’m getting tired of the BC always being in CA. Fall in NY is wonderful; granted in early November you can get a bad day or two, but I don’t understand why they won’t run it at Belmont again

I think NYRA has not requested it in some time. I hate to say it, but at this point Santa Anita, Churchill, Belmont are probably the only truly ideal tracks for it. Keeneland and Del Mar make do, but they are both a bit too small, and as nice as Keeneland is, it is rather miserable when it is that crowded. I have never been to Del Mar when it is that crowded, but I imagine it is the same. Aqueduct just doesn't have the VIP vibe BC is looking for. Arlington was a jewel, but one US racing just threw back into the volcano. Gulfstream no longer has the capacity. Saratoga might end up a good choice with the current state of climate change, but as a destination it is not all that easy to get in and out of for people or international horses. I have most enjoyed myself at Santa Anita on big days. Even with huge crowds, it is just so easy to move around the facility. I have attended two BC days there in two very different settings- first on just a SRO ticket without a seat and the second on the swanky end of things and thoroughly enjoyed both. I have attended CD on Derby days twice, and though I had fun, found moving around the facility stifling and exhausting. I attended Keeneland's first BC, but after experiencing the crush of a few Blue Grass days there, I decided to just buy access to The Hill, which was a nice picnic and worked out well, but again, it wasn't like watching the races live in front of you. I would imagine Belmont would be more like Santa Anita maybe, but with all the construction going on, doubt they will ask anytime soon.

The NYRA hasn't tried to get the Breeders Cup since the last time they hosted in 2005. They told the Breeders Cup to not even consider them a hosting option. The Breeders Cup told them they wouldn't be picked anyway because the Belmont track facilities need major renovations. Essentially for Belmont to be considered a host track, they have to heat the grandstand and add lighting to the parking lots, plus other infrastructure improvements. If the NYRA makes the Belmont grandstand heated, that is the end of Aqueduct cause they don't need two facilities that can race year round. Saratoga would never be an option.

Thanks for the info...I didn’t know any of that. I’m biased towards Belmont....I’m sorry to hear that it won’t ever be an option

[Flanders]

Man, I was colder at CD than I was at Belmont for the BC. Fall in the northeast isn't what it used to be, either.

The Kentucky/ California rotation is so deeply boring, but consolidation is happening everywhere across the sport, so I guess it's to be expected. Hard to believe the BC ever used to be run at places like Woodbine, Lone Star, and Monmouth.

Yeah I was surprised when I read that article, it was in the past few years. Here I found it: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/t ... again-why/

I agree that it is boring. But the BC board has definitely changed directions with how they view the event. Before it was about the fans, now its about the celebrities. They wanted to give fans in different areas the opportunity to go and see the Breeders Cup day. That ended with the disaster that was the Monmouth Breeders Cup. But they ran at Arlington, Aqueduct, Hollywood had it a couple times, Gulfstream used to be a normal stop until it was acquired by Stronach(the year Stronach bought it was the last year the BC was there, 1999).

I guess its nice they added Keeneland and Del Mar otherwise it would just be a non-stop of rotation between Santa Anita and Churchill Downs, or just constant Santa Anita which is what it seemed it was going to be for awhile.

[Flanders]

I think NYRA has not requested it in some time. I hate to say it, but at this point Santa Anita, Churchill, Belmont are probably the only truly ideal tracks for it. Keeneland and Del Mar make do, but they are both a bit too small, and as nice as Keeneland is, it is rather miserable when it is that crowded. I have never been to Del Mar when it is that crowded, but I imagine it is the same. Aqueduct just doesn't have the VIP vibe BC is looking for. Arlington was a jewel, but one US racing just threw back into the volcano. Gulfstream no longer has the capacity. Saratoga might end up a good choice with the current state of climate change, but as a destination it is not all that easy to get in and out of for people or international horses. I have most enjoyed myself at Santa Anita on big days. Even with huge crowds, it is just so easy to move around the facility. I have attended two BC days there in two very different settings- first on just a SRO ticket without a seat and the second on the swanky end of things and thoroughly enjoyed both. I have attended CD on Derby days twice, and though I had fun, found moving around the facility stifling and exhausting. I attended Keeneland's first BC, but after experiencing the crush of a few Blue Grass days there, I decided to just buy access to The Hill, which was a nice picnic and worked out well, but again, it wasn't like watching the races live in front of you. I would imagine Belmont would be more like Santa Anita maybe, but with all the construction going on, doubt they will ask anytime soon.

The NYRA hasn't tried to get the Breeders Cup since the last time they hosted in 2005. They told the Breeders Cup to not even consider them a hosting option. The Breeders Cup told them they wouldn't be picked anyway because the Belmont track facilities need major renovations. Essentially for Belmont to be considered a host track, they have to heat the grandstand and add lighting to the parking lots, plus other infrastructure improvements. If the NYRA makes the Belmont grandstand heated, that is the end of Aqueduct cause they don't need two facilities that can race year round. Saratoga would never be an option.

Thanks for the info...I didn’t know any of that. I’m biased towards Belmont....I’m sorry to hear that it won’t ever be an option

It can be an option but they have to put serious money into the facilities and I think it will be the death kneel of Aqueduct if that happens.

The NYRA had a lot of scandals in the early 2000s and went bankrupt, they had to get a bailout from the state, there were Federal charges at some point for tax evasion, they was also the betting scandal. This lead to them eventually being taken over by the New York governor for "3 years" that ended up being 5. He did them no favors in that time but they did themselves no favors before that. He forced them to give up ownership of the tracks and land. So tomorrow if NY state says, we are selling Aqueduct that it is, and I think that day will come sooner rather than later. They could do the same with Belmont and Saratoga, they are iconic though so I don't think that would ever happen.

[Izvestia]

Will this be a big deal for some of the horses???
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... mpionships

[Slewfan2]

Man, I was colder at CD than I was at Belmont for the BC. Fall in the northeast isn't what it used to be, either.

The Kentucky/ California rotation is so deeply boring, but consolidation is happening everywhere across the sport, so I guess it's to be expected. Hard to believe the BC ever used to be run at places like Woodbine, Lone Star, and Monmouth.

Yeah I was surprised when I read that article, it was in the past few years. Here I found it: https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/t ... again-why/

I agree that it is boring. But the BC board has definitely changed directions with how they view the event. Before it was about the fans, now its about the celebrities. They wanted to give fans in different areas the opportunity to go and see the Breeders Cup day. That ended with the disaster that was the Monmouth Breeders Cup. But they ran at Arlington, Aqueduct, Hollywood had it a couple times, Gulfstream used to be a normal stop until it was acquired by Stronach(the year Stronach bought it was the last year the BC was there, 1999).

I guess its nice they added Keeneland and Del Mar otherwise it would just be a non-stop of rotation between Santa Anita and Churchill Downs, or just constant Santa Anita which is what it seemed it was going to be for awhile.

So the nickname “the Super Bowl of Racing” is appropriate...too bad

[Slewfan2]

The NYRA hasn't tried to get the Breeders Cup since the last time they hosted in 2005. They told the Breeders Cup to not even consider them a hosting option. The Breeders Cup told them they wouldn't be picked anyway because the Belmont track facilities need major renovations. Essentially for Belmont to be considered a host track, they have to heat the grandstand and add lighting to the parking lots, plus other infrastructure improvements. If the NYRA makes the Belmont grandstand heated, that is the end of Aqueduct cause they don't need two facilities that can race year round. Saratoga would never be an option.

Thanks for the info...I didn’t know any of that. I’m biased towards Belmont....I’m sorry to hear that it won’t ever be an option

It can be an option but they have to put serious money into the facilities and I think it will be the death kneel of Aqueduct if that happens.

The NYRA had a lot of scandals in the early 2000s and went bankrupt, they had to get a bailout from the state, there were Federal charges at some point for tax evasion, they was also the betting scandal. This lead to them eventually being taken over by the New York governor for "3 years" that ended up being 5. He did them no favors in that time but they did themselves no favors before that. He forced them to give up ownership of the tracks and land. So tomorrow if NY state says, we are selling Aqueduct that it is, and I think that day will come sooner rather than later. They could do the same with Belmont and Saratoga, they are iconic though so I don't think that would ever happen.

Oh...no, I don’t want to see Aqueduct fail; I’ve never been, but it has way too much history. Belmont has magnificent BC prep days - I adore those actually, and they attract fantastic horses. I suppose that’s good enough.

I do vaguely remember that..thanks for the reminder. Ugh, I hope you’re wrong about Aqueduct....

[thinair]

NYRA didn't get a "bailout" from the State. That is a completely false media narrative.

One thing that was never really reported was that NYC OTB owed NYRA over $22 Million when they went bankrupt that was never paid. But I digress.

[Tessablue]

When did the "Monmouth was a disaster" narrative start, and why? It was a formful and exciting day of racing and the rain wasn't a big deal. I don't see the BC returning to Monmouth any time soon given the severe issues the track and its management have right now, but I don't understand how 2007 could possibly be disqualifying. The track is leagues more comfortable than Churchill on a big day, that's for sure.

[Squeaky]

Idol out of Classic after possibly tying up after a work today.

[Diver52]

Flagstaff retired; may become a stable pony.

[CorridorZ75]

Will this be a big deal for some of the horses???
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... mpionships

Not for INT horses, and I think a lot of the graded stakes in various jurisdictions have been running lasix- free this year.

[Izvestia]

Will this be a big deal for some of the horses???
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... mpionships

Not for INT horses, and I think a lot of the graded stakes in various jurisdictions have been running lasix- free this year.

I figured the INT horses were fine, but didn’t know about them on this side!

[HB1994]

Rattle N Roll has a hind foot abscess and will not run in the BC Juvenile.

[Slewfan2]

Rattle N Roll has a hind foot abscess and will not run in the BC Juvenile.

Oh geez...I’m so sorry for the connections...so close to the race. I’m still crushed by AP Indy’s race day scratch from the Derby...