Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

Posted: **Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:07 pm**

I noticed the main head tossing when the rider pulled her to a stop or took up contact, not when she was jumping where she appeared more smooth.

Posted: **Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:04 pm**

The horse is crooked as hell and it's hard for her to negotiate corners of the radius that she is being asked. It is hard for her to step under with the inside hind to negotiate the curve in a balanced manner. So she loses her balance and tosses her head because the horse's neck is a balancing rod (sometimes she just swings her hindquarters out, different symptom, same problem). When he asks for a change of bend (figure 8), the same thing happens. But that is the point of the work, to strengthen her. Every correct step she takes strengthens her appropriately, but things take time. . . . That's not dressage work, that's baby horse/basic training. She's green as grass.

Posted: **Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:35 pm**

-- 7th week Day 6 (this morning)

https://twitter.com/i/status/1307093004742729731
https://twitter.com/i/status/1307095732290191365

Yamaguchi tweeted:
''Good! She faced to the right as she gave her mind to the right bit in the end. But that was in line with what we asked her to do today.
I believe that she is getting ready to advance to the next step (of retraining).''

https://twitter.com/i/status/1307104903572205576

https://twitter.com/i/status/1307109449065168896

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:06 am**

katmandu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:04 pm The horse is crooked as hell and it's hard for her to negotiate corners of the radius that she is being asked. It is hard for her to step under with the inside hind to negotiate the curve in a balanced manner. So she loses her balance and tosses her head because the horse's neck is a balancing rod (sometimes she just swings her hindquarters out, different symptom, same problem). When he asks for a change of bend (figure 8), the same thing happens. But that is the point of the work, to strengthen her. Every correct step she takes strengthens her appropriately, but things take time. . . . That's not dressage work, that's baby horse/basic training. She's green as grass.

Tomay-to, tomah-to...balance and change of bend is also basic dressage, and it's being done for the same purpose. Everything starts with balance. Concur, however, that she's still green as grass, and what she learned from her training before racetrack debut was "run like hell" to the exclusion of all the other important instructions on how to be a saddle horse.

I'm a bit surprised that her connections are (seemingly) continuing with an eye to race training this year. I think with a filly as valuable as this one, especially since she's already a winner, is worth keeping in non-racing saddle training until January or so, and then evaluate whether it's time to bring her up to race fitness.

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:52 pm**

My POV was simply that balance/bend are fundamental to any properly trained riding horse. That's not her destiny (at this point, apparently), anyway. But she does have straightness issues and that is how you address them (lateral suppleness) - plus the work will help to relax her (confidence/submissiveness). And to really get down into the weeds relative to dressage, basic cavalry training for "riding horses" was up to what is now considered 2nd level (and would include work over small obstacles). "Dressage training" began at 3rd level if the horse was going to go in that direction.

Regardless, yes, she's looking a lot better!

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:09 pm**

For being only two - ONLY TWO! - and having had some very negative experiences, I think she is doing really well. I really liked how, when she was doing those little x-poles, that once she got rebalanced after the awkward cornering, she dropped her head, and stretched out to the jump with a really nice rhythm.

I am so impressed with how carefully and imaginatively they are retraining her. For all the folks who think that when a horse goes to Japan, nothing good will happen, ask how many USA trainers/owners would put this amount of time and training into a youngster. Maybe more than we know, and only the openness of Reframed's connections is giving us a look into a process that happens more secretly in the US.
Anyway, I wish Reframe and her connections only the best as they go forward.

Posted: **Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:17 pm**

Della wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:09 pm I am so impressed with how carefully and imaginatively they are retraining her. For all the folks who think that when a horse goes to Japan, nothing good will happen, ask how many USA trainers/owners would put this amount of time and training into a youngster. Maybe more than we know, and only the openness of Reframed connections is giving us a look into a process that happens more secretly in the US.
Anyway, I wish Reframe and her connections only the best as they go forward.

Posted: **Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:15 pm**

Della wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:09 pm I am so impressed with how carefully and imaginatively they are retraining her. For all the folks who think that when a horse goes to Japan, nothing good will happen, ask how many USA trainers/owners would put this amount of time and training into a youngster. Maybe more than we know, and only the openness of Reframed's connections is giving us a look into a process that happens more secretly in the US.
Anyway, I wish Reframe and her connections only the best as they go forward.

Yes, they are basically restarting her, taking her through the "breaking"/training steps and fixing holes or reestablishing responses. This is just basic starting a horse under saddle work. All my horses (warmbloods) were started by a person who worked for years starting racehorses and working young horses on the track. Through a series of events, too long to include here, he went into an independent business of his own, working out of a 100+ acre thoroughbred "nursery". He had developed a tremendous reputation locally as a person to start horses, and many people took their horses to him to start from multiple disciplines, particularly dressage/jumping/CT. The work is identical to what you see here, longlining in the round pen to longlining in the arena, establishing "steering" under saddle while carrying a rider's weight, and so on. The property was gorgeous, he would take young horses out along with river, etc. with his wife on a "pony" next to the horse to introduce to being ridden out in various scenery. He didn't work horses over small fences, at least not mine, although they were started from scratch and were with him for 6 weeks, so a slower/limited timeframe. I had one very hot, "strong" filly with him, I remember once when he was working her in the arena and she shied/jumped a shadow. He grimaced a little (I think because I was there), but didn't interact with her about it, and said to me, "that's just who she is". That's the type of horsemanship I appreciate and was very glad to be taking my horses to him.

It is extremely cool that they are putting this out to the world.

Posted: **Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:01 pm**

Della wrote: ↑Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:09 pm I am so impressed with how carefully and imaginatively they are retraining her. For all the folks who think that when a horse goes to Japan, nothing good will happen, ask how many USA trainers/owners would put this amount of time and training into a youngster. Maybe more than we know, and only the openness of Reframed's connections is giving us a look into a process that happens more secretly in the US.
Anyway, I wish Reframe and her connections only the best as they go forward.

I agree wholeheartedly. They have really gone above and beyond to resolve this issue.

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:28 am**

-- 8th week

Day 3
https://twitter.com/i/status/1308694624844656643
https://twitter.com/i/status/1308543855256457217

Day 4
https://twitter.com/i/status/1308894512618639374
https://twitter.com/i/status/1308893574319296514
https://twitter.com/i/status/1308911557548666880 woo-hoo!

she looks so proud.

Posted: **Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:33 pm**

How cool to use the trees as weave poles!

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 am**

@ the trees. I did that once too, it's a nice exercise to make them "bendy"!

Also very wise to sometimes make the horse go a full circle around it (I wasn't when I did that the first time). Because some horses think it's fun to go faster and faster through it with left right let right left right.

Imagine a dog in an agility course doing weave poles, you get the idea.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:59 am**

Yes, using the trees as bend poles is also how you get the light to come on for lead changes. Counter-cantering is hard on balance, switching leads makes it easier. It's also a good way to keep a horse's brain engaged.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:34 pm**

Kurenai wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 am @ the trees. I did that once too, it's a nice exercise to make them "bendy"!

Also very wise to sometimes make the horse go a full circle around it (I wasn't when I did that the first time). Because some horses think it's fun to go faster and faster through it with left right let right left right. Imagine a dog in an agility course doing weave poles, you get the idea.

Don't have to imagine a dog - pole bending with horses is an extremely popular sport in North America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYL6UVeM5pA

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:42 pm**

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:34 pm
Kurenai wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 am @ the trees. I did that once too, it's a nice exercise to make them "bendy"!

Also very wise to sometimes make the horse go a full circle around it (I wasn't when I did that the first time). Because some horses think it's fun to go faster and faster through it with left right let right left right. Imagine a dog in an agility course doing weave poles, you get the idea.

Don't have to imagine a dog - pole bending with horses is an extremely popular sport in North America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYL6UVeM5pA

I have done it several times on a very handy horse.

Posted: **Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:21 pm**

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:34 pm
Kurenai wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:08 am @ the trees. I did that once too, it's a nice exercise to make them "bendy"!

Also very wise to sometimes make the horse go a full circle around it (I wasn't when I did that the first time). Because some horses think it's fun to go faster and faster through it with left right let right left right. Imagine a dog in an agility course doing weave poles, you get the idea.

Don't have to imagine a dog - pole bending with horses is an extremely popular sport in North America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYL6UVeM5pA

I had never seen that.
Thanks for sharing the video!

Posted: **Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:43 am**

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:34 pm
Don't have to imagine a dog - pole bending with horses is an extremely popular sport in North America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYL6UVeM5pA

Oh wow, I had no idea that exists!

Posted: **Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:49 am**

In Canada at least, pole bending is usually run at the same competitions as barrell racing. In the US, barrell racing seems to get more of the attention. Having run both myself, I'd say pole bending is the tougher of the two to master well.

This horse here is the epitome of smooth, fast forward motion through the poles, and an INCREDIBLE turn at the end set. Choppy changes between the poles and poor turns cost precious seconds. In some jurisdictions, the rider grabbing the poles would have been disqualified but obviously not at that show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWIViFDQ2kg

I've seen the dogs do it. They make it look easy compared to doing it on a horse

Posted: **Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:19 pm**

Retrospectiv wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:49 am I've seen the dogs do it. They make it look easy compared to doing it on a horse

Start at ~32 minutes for some really good mid-size dogs (border collie types), it's amazing, and the dogs' enthusiasm is wonderful to behold!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKrwnoa-hMI

Unlike the polebending horses, they work the filly through the poles to get a couple of steps of countercounter in (they don't want her to change leads), countercounter is a very good balancer/ "straightener" and helps to develop flex in the lumbo-sacral (point on top of horses hindquarters) joint and greatly strengthens the hindquarters.

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:58 am**

-- 9th week
　Day 4

Yusuke Yamaguchi (owner, pre-trainer) tweeted: ''She will return to Miho Training Center next week.''

https://twitter.com/i/status/1311455025995030528
https://twitter.com/i/status/1311462178025684992 (5F in 1:06 handily)

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