American Pharoah x Careless Jewel filly freaks

[lurkey mclurker]

Yeah from what I could see in the video the saddle didn't slip until later, due to the efforts of her jockey to keep her straight. Thank goodness she didn't jump the rail, and she is very young... I don't remember hearing much abt shenanigans from her when she was training at the farm, so she might just need more time & experience at the training center to figure things out... hopefully.

[Northport]

Well since it has come through the Tapit as well, I would say it is a genetic issue. Also, remember the broodmare is the first behavior a foal learns to mimic so bad actors and nervous ones tend to have bad actors and nervous progeny.

The biggest issue with Japanese breeding would be they already have a ton of pretty hot blood through the Halo influence so they might manage to breed an incredibly fast but completely intractable strain.

I'd say that problem is personified in Gold Ship. Here's hoping they never send this filly to him

Part of me would want them to, for science (although watch the genetic lottery end up with a bombproof plodder) but the largest part of me definitely doesn't want that to happen

They might have to be creative with her. However if she usually drifts to the right, mayhaps the solution would be in training and running her mostly right-handed rather than left-handed?

Luckily in Japan they can at least try her over some right handed tracks and see if she still drifts towards the grandstand (I know she’d be getting trained at one of the JRA training centres, not an actual racetrack, but could be something to try for her next start). If she was in America, she’d be SOL.

[Retrospectiv]

I'm surprised the jock didn't give her some right handed taps to try and straighten her out and curb her veering out.
Maybe the saddle was too far slipped by that point, I didn't re-watch it.

[Kurenai]

The saddle slipped already waaaay before the turn. That wasn't the horses fault. Yes she was pulling (wouldn't call that antics, lots of horses do that). I just don't think that she is nuts at all. She's a baby, anxious and needs more training. And in no way I would put blinkers on her, would make her take a hold of the bit more. If they teach her a bit to relax, she'll be fine.

[tachyon]

She tried running off in her training session prior to the race, in the post parade of the race and she pretty much ran off after the start of the race as well. The saddle slipped secondary to the antics and ye, didn't help the situation.

You are right.

https://twitter.com/JayRAye02/status/12 ... 9105915904

https://twitter.com/JayRAye02/status/12 ... 8782994432

[tachyon]

I'd say that problem is personified in Gold Ship. Here's hoping they never send this filly to him

Part of me would want them to, for science (although watch the genetic lottery end up with a bombproof plodder) but the largest part of me definitely doesn't want that to happen

They might have to be creative with her. However if she usually drifts to the right, mayhaps the solution would be in training and running her mostly right-handed rather than left-handed?

Luckily in Japan they can at least try her over some right handed tracks and see if she still drifts towards the grandstand (I know she’d be getting trained at one of the JRA training centres, not an actual racetrack, but could be something to try for her next start). If she was in America, she’d be SOL.

I know that she was trained not only on the uphill training track (I'm sure that you have already seen a video clip of her workout) but also on a right-handed racetrack before the race.
She showed the same behavior of veering to the right, even if she didn't actually hit the rail.
So it's not so clear that racing her at a right-handed track can be the best solution, even if I wonder if her connections are likely to give her a chance on that direction next time out.

[tachyon]

I'm wondering if they will try blinkers (or partial, just the right side cup) with her...

Yeah I think they will consider the use of equipment, too, although it's hard to tell how it will work out....

Anyway,,, let's hope they will find the best solution for the talented filly in the end!

It looks like Reframe(USA) is one of the most popular juveniles who have debuted to date along with Pink Kamehameha(JPN) and/or Ringoame(JPN) among racegoers in Japan.

[Northport]

Part of me would want them to, for science (although watch the genetic lottery end up with a bombproof plodder) but the largest part of me definitely doesn't want that to happen

They might have to be creative with her. However if she usually drifts to the right, mayhaps the solution would be in training and running her mostly right-handed rather than left-handed?

Luckily in Japan they can at least try her over some right handed tracks and see if she still drifts towards the grandstand (I know she’d be getting trained at one of the JRA training centres, not an actual racetrack, but could be something to try for her next start). If she was in America, she’d be SOL.

I know that she was trained not only on the uphill training track (I'm sure that you have already seen a video clip of her workout) but also on a right-handed racetrack before the race.
She showed the same behavior of veering to the right, even if she didn't actually hit the rail.
So it's not so clear that racing her at a right-handed track can be the best solution, even if I wonder if her connections are likely to give her a chance on that direction next time out.

hmmm... well in that case, maybe it's just a case of more experience and her just settling better over time? She's only a baby, so it could all just be greenness. Hopefully she'll grow out of it before they have to call it quits with her.

[tachyon]

https://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/f ... 11#p231011

[Squeaky]

https://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/f ... 11#p231011

What were the results?

[Retrospectiv]

If you watch the middle video Tachyon posted, she's got a terrible wonky range of motion in that left front.
Worse than paddling, she wings it in, before swinging it out.

https://twitter.com/LongBallToNoOne/sta ... 9607437319

[Slinky_Malinky]

Someone needs to get that filly to a dressage trainer who does lots of ground work and in-hand work.

If you watch the walking videos, all four legs swing in to a line directly under her body. It's most pronounced at the walk with her left fore, which is so glaring that it obscures how much she swings in with the right hind. At the right-lead canter, her left fore is relatively straight and the right front swings in.

If she can spend a good 6-8 months learning how to balance herself and how to straighten up, it should help correct some of that motion. It will also give her owners some insight into what kind of training any future foals would need, and might make her a better citizen under saddle.

[Starine]

Slinky! Welcome back. Is this the video you were referencing?
https://twitter.com/LongBallToNoOne/sta ... 37319?s=19

That's an excellent observation regarding her movement and the benefit of dressage. Too bad her connections likely won't see this.

[tachyon]

Someone needs to get that filly to a dressage trainer who does lots of ground work and in-hand work.

If you watch the walking videos, all four legs swing in to a line directly under her body. It's most pronounced at the walk with her left fore, which is so glaring that it obscures how much she swings in with the right hind. At the right-lead canter, her left fore is relatively straight and the right front swings in.

If she can spend a good 6-8 months learning how to balance herself and how to straighten up, it should help correct some of that motion. It will also give her owners some insight into what kind of training any future foals would need, and might make her a better citizen under saddle.

Hello, Slinky_Malinsky
Thanks for your insightful comment!
I'm not an expert at all, but I feel that you hit the nail on the head.

There was something I forgot to say about Reframe's owner Yusuke Yamaguchi in this forum.
Mr Yamaguchi himself is a trainer who breaks racehorses before their debuts.
He has been in charge of some graded & G1 winners in the past.
He said in his tweet recently that he would like to improve his skill as a (dressage) trainer in his effort to solve Reframe's issues.
He is now regrouping with his collaborators including vets, veteran trainers and friends.

Mr Yamaguchi is updating his efforts and Reframe's status in his twitter account below.

https://twitter.com/yamaguchistable

There are some other links to Mr Yamaguchi and his stable.

https://bokujob.com/search/post-58.html
https://umaichi.com/trustrade/yamaguchi_stable.html

[tachyon]

https://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/f ... 11#p231011

What were the results?

It looks like they are still trying to analyse her issues from various angles.

[Slinky_Malinky]

Slinky! Welcome back. Is this the video you were referencing?
https://twitter.com/LongBallToNoOne/sta ... 37319?s=19

It's one video. Her trainer put up several -- Tachyon posted the links.

If you watch the head-on video of her run, she comes all the way in to the rail from an outside gate, always on the right lead, and doesn't straighten up or change leads when she comes out of the turn. https://twitter.com/LongBallToNoOne/sta ... 5214240768

She comes in from a wide gate and gets to the front about :30 in the video. In 0:37 - 0:38, she has steadied up in the 3-path with her head bent noticeably towards the rail -- all the horses behind her have their heads pointed forward and not sideways. At 0:54 she's coming around the turn in the 3-path, still with her head pointed to the inside rail. At 1:02, she's entering the top of the stretch and is still in the 3-path. By 1:05, she's drifted out into the 4-path and 1:07 she's 5 wide. The saddle appears to start slipping at 1:18 or so, and at 1:20 she bolts for the outside rail.

To me, running the whole race like that doesn't look like an injury so much as she's not balanced and not especially flexible. She's just throwing her legs out there as fast as she can. (Not surprising for a baby in her first start, to be honest I expect weird stuff from green horses.) Learning to carry herself more effectively, lots of carrot stretches, probably regular chiropractor visits, and work on both sides to get balance will go a long way to fixing those issues.

[Kurenai]

Aieieieie, that looks bad. Few centimeters more and she is basically running like walking on a tight rope , because the back end doesn't look that much better. I agree that she needs some dressage training to balance her out and make her carry herself better. If they work on her flexibility (chiropractor would help too probably), that should make her easier around the turns too. Maybe it's only a physical thing that she walks like that to avoid pain, but I doubt it. She looks very tense (muscular) too.

It's not only because she is hard to handle on the track. With a gait like this, this is an accident waiting to happen, because she trips herself up maybe. I do hope that they work on her, because she is very talented and just sending her to the breeding farm won't help either, in case she passes that down to her foals. Time off, forget the races for a while, train her and make her more comfortable and she will be back better than ever as a 3 yo.

Edit to say: I should have read Slinkeys second post before replying. Would have saved me some typing

[Slinky_Malinky]

Maybe it's only a physical thing that she walks like that to avoid pain, but I doubt it. She looks very tense (muscular) too.

She is only 2 years old. Her sire is 16h2 and she's linebred to the tall and height-throwing Unbridled. Although it's hard to tell in a walking video, she looks base-narrow in front, which is common enough in young horses who haven't fully furnished yet. All of that suggests she has a fair bit of growing to do, which in turn goes with her walking like a drunk duck.

It sounds like her connections are thinking along the same way as I am -- that this is a training and development problem, not necessarily (or not yet) an injury problem.

[tachyon]

@yamaguchistable

Day 3

https://twitter.com/yamaguchistable/sta ... 3350366209
https://twitter.com/yamaguchistable/sta ... 6456810496

What do you call this treatment in English?

chiropraktik?

[Mylute]

@yamaguchistable

Day 3

https://twitter.com/yamaguchistable/sta ... 3350366209
https://twitter.com/yamaguchistable/sta ... 6456810496

What do you call this treatment in English?

chiropraktik?

Yep, only it's chiropractic. You go to the chiropractor usually for pain in the back and neck, and other parts of the body. If you have a "crick" in your neck or something you go there, for example.