Horse Racing Forum - USA Thoroughbred Races

Well, as I slog through the sirelines of Triple Crown race winners from the US, England, Ireland, France, Germany (stopped for the day at the 1977 German 2000 Guineas), Italy and Japan, I figured I'd be all playful (or sadistic, depending on one's POV) with a daily trivia challenge, unless I get bored or no one answers or I forget, ala Shrek.

So, first question:

This stallion, foaled in 1865, sired an English Derby winner and has a name that made Roz Doyle of Frasier not at all enthusiastic about dating a doctor who collected them. Yes. He collected them. Cue the shrieking.

~Miesque

(Yes, I will get back to adding Melbourne Cup winners to the All Consuming, All Encompassing Project, but I got a curious about the sirelines and the Melbourne Cup can wait a bit, I think)

It was Speculum, bay, 1865 by Vedette out of Doralice, by Orlando.

Just the word gives me the heebie jeebies.

So maybe something more recent?

This son of Man o' War sired three winners of the Tokyo Yushun (Japanese Derby), a winner of the Yushun Himba (Japanese Oaks), and a winner of the Oka Sho (Japanese 1000 Guineas).

~Miesque

Love this idea for a thread! Is it Tsukitomo? MoW x Alzada.

stelladaniella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:13 pm Love this idea for a thread! Is it Tsukitomo? MoW x Alzada.

You are correct! One gazillion nonexistent cyberbucks to you!

Next question:

Long before Sly Stallone, this Italian stallion (foaled in England, but I'm sure he picked up some Italian after a while) sired so many classic winners in Italy that you would think his line would continue to this day. Alas, only one son bred on, albeit only briefly, and his line also seems to have petered out.

~Miesque

Tricky! I'm not familiar at all with that-side-of-the-Atlantic. Hopefully some others find this thread and can pop in to tell!

It was the amazing Signorino, who finished 3rd in the 1905 English Derby and 2nd in the English 2000 Guineas.

Signorino(GB), bay 1902 (Best Man(GB)-Signorina(GB), by St Simon(GB)
SIRED:
• Alcimaca (Italian 1000 Guineas, Italian Oaks)
• Alcimedonte (Italian St Leger)
• Alcione (Italian 2000 Guineas, Italian St Leger)
• Androclea (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Aquilone (Italian 2000 Guineas)
• Ardea (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Arianna (Italian St Leger, Italian Oaks)
• Aristippo (Italian St Leger)
• Carlone (Italian Derby)
• Cima da Conegliano (Italian Derby)
• Claudia Lorena (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Fraschetta (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Ghiberti (Italian Derby)
• Gianpietrina (Italian Derby, Italian 1000 Guineas, Italian Oaks)
• Idolo (Italian 2000 Guineas)
• Juma (Italian Oaks)
• Makufa (Italian 2000 Guineas, Italian 1000 Guineas, Italian Oaks)
• Meissonier (Italian Derby)
• Melozza da Forli (Italian Derby)
• Michelangelo (Italian Derby, Italian St Leger)
• Sigma (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Sissa (Italian Oaks)
• Stfadda (Italian Oaks)
• Ten (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Torcicollo (Italian 2000 Guineas)
• Van Dyck (Italian Derby)
• Vanetta (Italian 1000 Guineas)
• Vespisedda (Italian 2000 Guineas)

This isn't really a sire's trivia question. I want to know if anyone can figure out how to pronounce this horse's name:

Marchs, foaled 1965, won the 1968 Japanese 2000 Guineas.

I can't even start to pronounce it. It's not a verb, it's not plural and it's not possessive. "Marchsssss"? But it's become an obsession for me and my lips hurt now. Give it a try and see how you do. I'm going to bed.

~Miesque

Been away for a bit. I finally 'finished' the sirelines project for the US, England, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy and Japan and good grief I've totally lost my good sense and am diving into a side project on sires of multiple classic winners in other countries. Just started Denmark today.

So on Denmark (and you can cheat and check in the PQ stakes database for the answer):

This stallion, a representative of the Godolphin Arabian line, sired 5 winners of the Dansk 2000 Guineas, and one of his sons sired a Dansk 2000 Guineas winner himself.

(I'm sure the stallion in question sired other classic winners in Scandinavia, but I only just finished the Dansk 2000 Guineas, so cut me a break here. I don't have the full breakdown yet, and I need some sleep.)

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2024 11:46 pm
This son of Man o' War sired three winners of the Tokyo Yushun (Japanese Derby), a winner of the Yushun Himba (Japanese Oaks), and a winner of the Oka Sho (Japanese 1000 Guineas).

~Miesque

stelladaniella wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 12:13 pm Love this idea for a thread! Is it Tsukitomo? MoW x Alzada.

Awww!!

I'm into Mexico now. So how 'bout some Mexican Triple Crown sires trivia?

This grandson of Colin sired six winners of Mexico's Gran Premio Nacional. Again, PQ can help you bring them right up, in the stakes database.

(I have not completed Mexico's Triple Crown series winners, but just the Gran Premio Nacional has brought four sires of multiple winners of just that race. But I stopped tonight at 1979 because I'm worn out and I still need to finish my laundry. I have completed Canada's Triple Crown series' and am in the process of editing and lining up sires of multiple winners by # of winners and alphabetizing the list and doing other vaguely OCD stuff with that.)

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2024 9:23 pm I'm into Mexico now. So how 'bout some Mexican Triple Crown sires trivia?

This grandson of Colin sired six winners of Mexico's Gran Premio Nacional. Again, PQ can help you bring them right up, in the stakes database.

(I have not completed Mexico's Triple Crown series winners, but just the Gran Premio Nacional has brought four sires of multiple winners of just that race. But I stopped tonight at 1979 because I'm worn out and I still need to finish my laundry. I have completed Canada's Triple Crown series' and am in the process of editing and lining up sires of multiple winners by # of winners and alphabetizing the list and doing other vaguely OCD stuff with that.)

~Miesque

Nedayr!

You are correct!

New question:

This non-classic winning stallion, whose name indicates he only brings gloomy news, just earned his way into the 'sired two classic winners' group by siring a Japanese Oaks winner. Name this guy and his other Japanese classic winner.

Back on the hunt this evening. I'm going to be pretty busy this week and going forward, but I'll try to post at least one question per week. I'm starting a new job (at last!) and so it's gonna be an adjustment. But I'll be around.

~Miesqsue

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 7:09 pm
New question:

This non-classic winning stallion, whose name indicates he only brings gloomy news, just earned his way into the 'sired two classic winners' group by siring a Japanese Oaks winner. Name this guy and his other Japanese classic winner.

~Miesqsue

No horse comes to my mind, Miesque.
Probably because there are only five 'classic races' in Japan..

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 7:09 pm You are correct!

New question:

This non-classic winning stallion, whose name indicates he only brings gloomy news, just earned his way into the 'sired two classic winners' group by siring a Japanese Oaks winner. Name this guy and his other Japanese classic winner.

Back on the hunt this evening. I'm going to be pretty busy this week and going forward, but I'll try to post at least one question per week. I'm starting a new job (at last!) and so it's gonna be an adjustment. But I'll be around.

~Miesqsue

It's Harbinger. His daughter, Deirdre (JPN), won the Shuko Sho in 2017 and another daughter, Cervinia (JPN), just won the Yushun Himba (Japanese Oaks) on May 19th.

amydfrom73 wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:09 am

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 7:09 pm You are correct!

New question:

This non-classic winning stallion, whose name indicates he only brings gloomy news, just earned his way into the 'sired two classic winners' group by siring a Japanese Oaks winner. Name this guy and his other Japanese classic winner.

Back on the hunt this evening. I'm going to be pretty busy this week and going forward, but I'll try to post at least one question per week. I'm starting a new job (at last!) and so it's gonna be an adjustment. But I'll be around.

~Miesqsue

It's Harbinger. His daughter, Deirdre (JPN), won the Shuko Sho in 2017 and another daughter, Cervinia (JPN), just won the Yushun Himba (Japanese Oaks) on May 19th.

No.
Deirdre is not a CLASSIC winner, as Shuka Sho is not a CLASSIC RACE.

Please check out the links below:

https://japanracing.jp/en/horsemen/clas ... tries.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Classic_Races

Historically, Japanese Classic Races have been set up to take after Classic Races in GB.

Satsuki Sho = Japanese 2000 Guineas
Tokyo Yushun = Japanese Derby
Kikuka Sho = Japanese St Leger.

Oka Sho = Japanese 1000 Guineas
Yushun Himba = Japanese Oaks

Shuka Sho is just one of Triple Crown for Fillies (Triple Tiara) races.

tachyon wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 6:33 pm

amydfrom73 wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 11:09 am

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 7:09 pm You are correct!

New question:

This non-classic winning stallion, whose name indicates he only brings gloomy news, just earned his way into the 'sired two classic winners' group by siring a Japanese Oaks winner. Name this guy and his other Japanese classic winner.

Back on the hunt this evening. I'm going to be pretty busy this week and going forward, but I'll try to post at least one question per week. I'm starting a new job (at last!) and so it's gonna be an adjustment. But I'll be around.

~Miesqsue

It's Harbinger. His daughter, Deirdre (JPN), won the Shuko Sho in 2017 and another daughter, Cervinia (JPN), just won the Yushun Himba (Japanese Oaks) on May 19th.

No.
Deirdre is not a CLASSIC winner, as Shuka Sho is not a CLASSIC RACE.

Please check out the links below:

https://japanracing.jp/en/horsemen/clas ... tries.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Classic_Races

Historically, Japanese Classic Races have been set up to take after Classic Races in GB.

Satsuki Sho = Japanese 2000 Guineas
Tokyo Yushun = Japanese Derby
Kikuka Sho = Japanese St Leger.

Oka Sho = Japanese 1000 Guineas
Yushun Himba = Japanese Oaks

Shuka Sho is just one of Triple Crown for Fillies (Triple Tiara) races.

Huh?

I went by what the Wikipedia page said. If the Shuka Sho isn't part of the Japanese Filly Triple Tiara series, then there is no such series at all. So what's the point of the Shuka Sho? Is there some other race rounding out the Triple Tiara in Japan, or does she have to win the St Leger equivalent?

Liberty Island won the three races and was called a Filly Triple Crown winner in Japan. So... <shrug>

Anyway. It's not that important, really. I just give credit where credit's due.

Down to old Mexico!

This son of Point Given has sired six classic winners in Mexico. One of his sons swept the Triple Crown, and a daughter swept the Filly Triple Crown.

~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 10:00 pm
Down to old Mexico!

This son of Point Given has sired six classic winners in Mexico. One of his sons swept the Triple Crown, and a daughter swept the Filly Triple Crown.

~Miesque

Point Determined(USA)

tachyon wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2024 10:57 pm

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Fri May 24, 2024 10:00 pm
Down to old Mexico!

This son of Point Given has sired six classic winners in Mexico. One of his sons swept the Triple Crown, and a daughter swept the Filly Triple Crown.

~Miesque

Point Determined(USA)

You are correct!

I'm working crazy hours now, so I may not get right back here again until Friday. But I'll do what I can to keep up.

Next question!

This French 2000 Guineas winner of the early 1950's sired an Irish St Leger winner and four classic winners in Japan. His sire had a name I would never give to a horse, personally, as I just find it rather... silly.


~Miesque

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:17 pm Next question!

This French 2000 Guineas winner of the early 1950's sired an Irish St Leger winner and four classic winners in Japan. His sire had a name I would never give to a horse, personally, as I just find it rather... silly.


~Miesque

Miesque, I really, really liked this question.
I wonder if this is the first time he is quoted in this forum (?).

It was Zenya Yoshida who purchased this French stallion who would subsequently build a foundation for Shadai Farm in 1961.
His sire-line is already extinct now.
But he was quite influential as a broodmare sire.
And, if it were not for him, we couldn't have seen the likes of Dyna Carle, Air Groove, Admire Groove, Epiphaneia, Daring Tact, Efforia, Duramente, Liberty Island etc.

Yes, his name is........... Guersant!!!!!!

-- Shadai Stallion's history page
https://shadai-ss.com/en/corporation/history/

-- youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fCnyUfAFps

tachyon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:37 am

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 08, 2024 1:17 pm Next question!

This French 2000 Guineas winner of the early 1950's sired an Irish St Leger winner and four classic winners in Japan. His sire had a name I would never give to a horse, personally, as I just find it rather... silly.


~Miesque

Miesque, I really, really liked this question.
I wonder if this is the first time he is quoted in this forum (?).

It was Zenya Yoshida who purchased this French stallion who would subsequently build a foundation for Shadai Farm in 1961.
His sire-line is already extinct now.
But he was quite influential as a broodmare sire.
And, if it were not for him, we couldn't have seen the likes of Dyna Carle, Air Groove, Admire Groove, Epiphaneia, Daring Tact, Efforia, Duramente, Liberty Island etc.

Yes, his name is........... Guersant!!!!!!

-- Shadai Stallion's history page
https://shadai-ss.com/en/corporation/history/

-- youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fCnyUfAFps

You are correct!

This one might be a little more obscure.

This winner of the German Derby and German 2000 Guineas sired nine classic winners in Germany and two in Italy.

Miesque1973 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:35 pm
This one might be a little more obscure.

This winner of the German Derby and German 2000 Guineas sired nine classic winners in Germany and two in Italy.

Ummmmm....

is he Konigsstuhl?

I looked at the past German Classic winners first.
I see that Koningsstuhl is one of the 21 horses who achieved the German 2000 Guineas and the German Derby double since 1881 along with Bauernfanger, Trachenberg, Potrimpos, Peter, Landgraf, Augias, Alba, Sturmvogel, Orgelton, Wehr Dich, Magnat, Neckar, Mangon, Allasch, Kilometer, Orsini, Herero, Orofino, Philipo, Lavirco.
I know that Koningsstuhl is responsible as the sire for seven Classic winners with nine Classic victories in Germany.
But I don't have the list of Italian Classic winners....